blacktaped
Member
Ok....
this might sound a trivial question, or it might have even been a frequently asked subject but, since searching on the web hasn't produced so far any satisfactory result, I'm posting a question here at this forum:
becoming the owner of a charming Leica M2 from 1966 has triggered in me the curiosity of trying to find out more than just its year of production (or to check if it was in the "black list" of stolen equipment, which luckily wasn't the case....). I mean, where was it sold it originally? Is there any kind of story behind it? Is there any registry out there that tells you, for example, if a certain camera had been exported say, in Asia, or America, or whatever?
I know, I know, it might be like asking about the sex of an angel.... but I guess someone else has been trying to get the same answers for their own beauties...
this might sound a trivial question, or it might have even been a frequently asked subject but, since searching on the web hasn't produced so far any satisfactory result, I'm posting a question here at this forum:
becoming the owner of a charming Leica M2 from 1966 has triggered in me the curiosity of trying to find out more than just its year of production (or to check if it was in the "black list" of stolen equipment, which luckily wasn't the case....). I mean, where was it sold it originally? Is there any kind of story behind it? Is there any registry out there that tells you, for example, if a certain camera had been exported say, in Asia, or America, or whatever?
I know, I know, it might be like asking about the sex of an angel.... but I guess someone else has been trying to get the same answers for their own beauties...
Al Kaplan
Veteran
It was a simplified camera, manual reset frame counter, no self timer in the beginning, a finder that had a 35mm frame so it appealed to photojournalists, it accepted the Leicavit trigger base plate (although a different model than the screw mount series) and motor drives. It was also cheaper than an M3. $200 without self timer, $250 with in the 1960's when the M3 was $288. There was also an M1 which lacked a rangefinder. It was designed to use on the Visoflex reflex housing, or for photomicroscopy and other instrumentation uses. The M1 did have a viewfinder, unlike the later MD.
The earliest ones had a push button for rewind, while later production went to the same flip lever as the M3. I think that the M2 first came out in 1957.
The earliest ones had a push button for rewind, while later production went to the same flip lever as the M3. I think that the M2 first came out in 1957.
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chris00nj
Young Luddite
I'm not aware of any info that tracks individual numbers. The best you can find is the year of production.
My has been in my family since it was purchased new in the mid 1960s, so I am aware of its history. It certainly did a lot of traveling before it ever wound up in my hands. Because of that history, it definitely holds an extra special value to me.
My has been in my family since it was purchased new in the mid 1960s, so I am aware of its history. It certainly did a lot of traveling before it ever wound up in my hands. Because of that history, it definitely holds an extra special value to me.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
$250.00, Al? Gee, I only paid $249.00 for mine! I got it in a camera store in Las Vegas--on the strip. That was back around 1960 or so. Can't remember if there was a sales tax or not in Las Vegas at the time. I was in the Air Force back then, so I had to save up for quite while!
The M2's .72 finder became the norm for many later Leicas, such as the M4, M5, M4-P, and most M6, MP, and M7 Leicas. Some of the latter have .58 finders for use with wide angle lenses; some have .85 finders for use with the longer lenses.
The M2's .72 finder became the norm for many later Leicas, such as the M4, M5, M4-P, and most M6, MP, and M7 Leicas. Some of the latter have .58 finders for use with wide angle lenses; some have .85 finders for use with the longer lenses.
blacktaped
Member
thanks guys for your replies so far, I didn't know for example what would be its sale price at the time it went out, good info.
Since it's indeed really hard to track back the infos on single pieces, then this post could become an interesting corner where one can write about its own history with the M2, that could be a nice read for anyone, I guess....
Since it's indeed really hard to track back the infos on single pieces, then this post could become an interesting corner where one can write about its own history with the M2, that could be a nice read for anyone, I guess....
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Al, my impression has been that the M1, with fixed 35mm and 50mm frame lines, was meant for journalists who used only those focal lengths and did not really need to focus. I cannot see the utility of a viewfinder in a camera meant for Visoflex use or photomicrography. Leica made the MD for those applications.
chris00nj
Young Luddite
According to an inflation calculator, a $288 in 1966 is equivalent to $1890 today.
Since a new Leica MP is $4400, it seems like Leica is more expensive today.
An M3 built in 1966 (late model SS), is probably worth $900 today. That is an appreciation of 2.7%, which is under inflation, but better than many things bought in 1966.
blacktaped
Member
if I'm not mistaken, investing the same amount of money on the SP500 would have yielded a bit more than 5% p.a., at current levels, and not including dividends.
But with much more pain and volatility than shooting on the streets with an M2 for more than forty years! And who knows how worth could be some special shot made in this period?
But with much more pain and volatility than shooting on the streets with an M2 for more than forty years! And who knows how worth could be some special shot made in this period?
Harry Lime
Practitioner
The M2 doesn't have a lug / connector for a motor or Leicavit, unless it's a special model (M2-R?).
Tom A makes a special version of the Rapidwinder with an extended windshaft to get around this problem. Apparently you can add a motor coupling, but the internal gears are brass and probably not strong enough to endure heavy use with anything but manual advance (which the M2 will happily do for bazillions of rolls). The original MP and later M bodies that take a winder or Leicavit have steel gears.
Tom A makes a special version of the Rapidwinder with an extended windshaft to get around this problem. Apparently you can add a motor coupling, but the internal gears are brass and probably not strong enough to endure heavy use with anything but manual advance (which the M2 will happily do for bazillions of rolls). The original MP and later M bodies that take a winder or Leicavit have steel gears.
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chris00nj
Young Luddite
if I'm not mistaken, investing the same amount of money on the SP500 would have yielded a bit more than 5% p.a., at current levels, and not including dividends.
But with much more pain and volatility than shooting on the streets with an M2 for more than forty years! And who knows how worth could be some special shot made in this period?
You are correct. The DJIA has annually grown about 5.5%, accounting for dividends since 1966. Of course, it was basically flat in nominal terms from 1966-1982. Inflation has been averaged 4.5% over the same period.
Besides possibilities of selling, also consider memorable family photos... with a unique glow.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Mukul, I guess the M1 had those framelines because of the "why not?" factor. The cost associated with making a special windowless top plate for a low production camera probably wasn't that different than putting in a viewfinder. The MD wasn't introduced until they'd stopped making M1 bodies. The MDa might have been in the pipeline by then anyway. It was an MD with the M4 loading system and rewind crank. Either one would be very useable with a 21, 28, or the Zeiss Hologon. A 35mm f/2 gets kind of iffy wide open at close distances.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The M2 actually has a connection for the original Leicavit (which is about 3 times the cost of a mint M2!). The small series of M2-M (and some unmarked M2's ) had electric switches for the Goldberg or Leica USA motor. The gears were changed to case hardened steel in these (the same as in the original Leica MP). Rather "crunchy" advance. The motor was less than spectacular - the ones I had never managed to finish a roll - usually went on strike around frame 25-27!
My Rapidwinder M2 uses the long shaft of the M2 (which has a slot for a drive-pin) and probably puts less stress on the brass gear than the motor did.