The Zone ... ... ...

[Jarvis]

1. Does anyone make use of "the zone"

2. Does using it make sense for 35mm and 120 format ?

 

[FrankS]

It does if you use diafine developer! For flat lighting, expose at the film's rated speed. In contrasty lighting expose at 2X ISO, and for night scenes with lights (or stage lighting) expose at 3X ISO. This works only with Diafine developer (I believe) because it boosts normal film speed and because it is a compensating developer, developing itself to exhaustion. There was quite a discussion on Diafine here a few weeks ago, perhaps you can searchfor it. Anyway, it lead to many of us to get excited about it and order some.

 

[rover]

Also with Diafine, I have read that regardless of what speed you rate the film, place the darkest shadow in which you want detail 2 stops below your exposure and don't worry about the highlights as they should hold in the development.

 

[Dirk]

I'm usually too zoned out to use the zone, or be in it.

 

[Pherdinand]

Dunno but i prefer to expose for the details i want on the image. Like, expose for the shadows only if that's interesting, - on a contrasty stage lighting i always expose for the highlights.
Did not study the zone system but the metering is important in contrasty situations so i try to pay attention to it. Multi-segment matrix meterings are next to useless in these cases. Whenever i use my minolta af ae 14-segment metered camera in a spotlighted stage performance i "underexpose" with 1-1.5 to 2 stops and then it works.

 

[tom_f77]

Also with Diafine, I have read that regardless of what speed you rate the film, place the darkest shadow in which you want detail 2 stops below your exposure and don't worry about the highlights as they should hold in the development.

Yes. This is how I have got the best results out of (home made) diafine and more recently Diluxol Vitesse (although I might now try the real stuff now we all know about Huron Camera...). Meter what you want to be the darkest detailed shadow and then underexpose by two stops from this reading. Or in a pinch, meter off your shaded palm and underexpose that one stop.

Tom

 

[Roger Hicks]

There's actually a section on www.rogerandfrances.com explaining why my wife and I don't use the Zone System, despite dozens of books published and hundreds, maybe thousands, of articles. Go to the 'Photo School' section and look for 'Why we don't use the Zone System'.

But if it works for someone else, hey, don't knock it. At least, no more than it
deserves.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Doug]

Seems like the discussion's been mostly about Diafine as a sort of "zone system in a bottle", and a bit of emphasis on exposing for the shadows... This is all great, no put-down intended, but it isn't really the Zone System is it. I don't know that the Zone System is practical for roll film, except maybe with multiple rolls of film each in its own film back exposed in certain ways and destined for particular development.

 

[T_om]

Seems like the discussion's been mostly about Diafine as a sort of "zone system in a bottle", and a bit of emphasis on exposing for the shadows... This is all great, no put-down intended, but it isn't really the Zone System is it. I don't know that the Zone System is practical for roll film, except maybe with multiple rolls of film each in its own film back exposed in certain ways and destined for particular development.

Actually, in the gospel according to St. Ansel, you can, indeed, use the Zone System with roll film photography. I do it all the time.

Here are a couple of quotes:

Full control using the Zone System requires individual processing of each negative... It is a mistake, however, to assume the Zone System "does not work" with roll film cameras, since it is a practical expression of sensitometric principals, the Zone System remains valid, even though its use is somewhat different.~Ansel Adams

Adams was just reiterating the fact that the Zone System is merely a way to control contrast. Simple as that. From capture to print. Hence the following:

At the minimum, it can provide a framework for understanding exposure-development considerations, and making informed decisions that relate the circumstances of subject luminance and contrast with the capabilities of the photographic process ~ Ansel Adams {emphasis mine}

Next, he says:

With roll films we must usually accept the requirement for uniform development of the entire roll, and we can adjust our procedures to accommodate this fact ~Ansel Adams {emphasis mine}

Again, it is about control. You extend control over that which you are able to control. Then you just have to accept the limitations of the medium.


Next:

The absence of development control will mean a greater reliance on contrast control through the use of paper grades in printing. ~Ansel Adams

Adams goes on to say that one should use techniques (exposure and development) that enable the most information to be captured. He recommends exposure calculated to capture adequate shadow detail and to use N-1 development for scale compression.


Last:

We can usually achieve satisfactory prints {from roll film} this way provided we have taken care in exposure of the negative to be certain that detail is present throughout all important subject values. ~Ansel Adams {emphasis mine}

So, the Zone System can, indeed, be used with roll film capture. It is a way of quantifying exposure and printing to achieve what we "see" as the finished image. It ALL depends, of course, upon the amount of control we have at each step of the process. Control the capture, control the development and control the printing. Control EACH to the extent the medium allows. This is what the Zone System boils down to in the final analysis anyway.

Tom

PS: I believe St. Ansel :angel: would have LOVED PhotoShop.