PKR
Veteran
Sounds more like persistence of the 'older generation' to me.I think there's definitely some merit to teaching photography with film nowadays; although, the idea of 'negatives' is losing some of its relevance.
Still great to hear.
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"Relevance". Interesting choice of words.
p.
sper
Well-known
It's not that complicated. Look at vinyl records. It's not a fad because when you actually buy music why wouldn't you want all the beauty and fedelity that comes with a record and a stereo?iTunes is so disposable in comparison.
Why wouldn't someome who's going out to take pictures for the enjoyment of taking pictures want a similar tangible feeling? Digital is for work and screwing around. It pays the bills and keeps the effort low. But loading a film camera is sexy and rewarding.
People still ride horses. There is such a thing as craft. I hear you can even still buy paint and brushes too.
Why wouldn't someome who's going out to take pictures for the enjoyment of taking pictures want a similar tangible feeling? Digital is for work and screwing around. It pays the bills and keeps the effort low. But loading a film camera is sexy and rewarding.
People still ride horses. There is such a thing as craft. I hear you can even still buy paint and brushes too.
olle
Fujifilm
I'm only 23 so I hope that puts me in the 'young' category, my knees say otherwise though.
I find it a struggle to shoot digital ever since I acquired my Bessa R3a. From what I have seen, film photography is firmly implanted in the 'retro' craze.. That beig said, there are still a number of us out there who still use good old film.
I find it a struggle to shoot digital ever since I acquired my Bessa R3a. From what I have seen, film photography is firmly implanted in the 'retro' craze.. That beig said, there are still a number of us out there who still use good old film.
back alley
IMAGES
do you think the craft is merely in the medium?
taylan
Street Dog
I am using Tri-X in generally and last month when i went to my local store in istanbul, i could not found any Tri-x. The owner of store said he had ordered a huge amount of Tri-x and finally 1000 (one thousand) roll film arrived. Last weekend i went store to buy some roll and he said he has only 3 roll. i shocked. he sold 1000 roll Tri-x in a month. i bought that last 3 roll and now i am waiting for another huge party .
.pakeha
Well-known
I am using Tri-X in generally and last month when i went to my local store in istanbul, i could not found any Tri-x. The owner of store said he had ordered a huge amount of Tri-x and finally 1000 (one thousand) roll film arrived. Last weekend i went store to buy some roll and he said he has only 3 roll. i shocked. he sold 1000 roll Tri-x in a month. i bought that last 3 roll and now i am waiting for another huge party
Amazing what goes on in the rest of the WORLD is`nt it
These discussions would have more relavence with a consideration as to what may be happening elsewhere. What are the young in China up to? Europe?
oringinally posted by gns
And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware
of what they're going through
Quite apt
regards
CW
Neare
Well-known
Only people who have shot with film can appreciate it. Now most new photographers under 30 have not done that. Consumerism has won.
However, it seems these 4 children have been redeemed.
"He who saves one life saves the world."
However, it seems these 4 children have been redeemed.
"He who saves one life saves the world."
Turtle
Veteran
sorry, I had not realised that shooting film had ever stopped being cool!
Mike Walker is building LF cameras faster than ever, he told me a few days back. Thats has to be good news.
Mike Walker is building LF cameras faster than ever, he told me a few days back. Thats has to be good news.
Arjay
Time Traveller
That's an important point - to have students work using capable tools that don't overstress their budgets.
But there's yet another consideration: If you want to teach theory and practice of photography - how would you like your students to work on their projects? With deliberation, pondering every shot beforehand, or would you like them to take their pictures machine-gun style?
Film cameras are actually forcing students to use the former approach and to work with more premeditation.
So, it might very well be part of the educational effort to have them use analog cameras.
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Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
I love these discussions and I really think it's great that film is being talked about. There are those that threw there film cameras under the bus and think digital is the cat's meow. I just ignore them since no amount of discussion or proof of film "greatness" will sway them. Film has always been cool. Always will be cool. And will never die.
From a teacher's perspective, film is the ideal medium as it "challenges" the student to pre-visualize in their mind's eye. And while digital has its place, it will never replace the film process, in my opinion. "Film is photography" ™. Hey, I like that.
The craft of loading a roll in the camera, pre-visualizing the image and then setting exposure, focus, shutter speed ...OO to printing and presentation.
I'm so relieved to know that the next generation is tracking on film. There is more to the craft of photography than just hammering the shutter with your eyes closed using the P setting on a digital camera.
And the time is ripe for the younger generation to get themselves a kick-ass film camera in 35 mm, 2 1/4, 4X5, 8X10 and beyond. Check out KEH or my pal at Vintage Visuals for your dream film system on the cheap. I was looking at a local used camera store and I was in awe of how little you need to get a Blad with 80 2.8, 40 f/4 and 150 2.8.
They're giving them away right now. But trust me, this trend isn't going to last. I predict in the coming years, classic film cameras will be worth big bucks. Especially if you've got the film, chemicals and paper to feed them.
I dug this 16-20 from a box of prints yesterday. Taken more than 20 years ago.
It's a shot of my cousin when we were both starving artists.
I just want to show a film shot that exhibits the cool factor.
Check out the story behind the image on the Nikon Cafe film section.
There is a little bit of a Leica invasion happening over there as well.
"Film is photography"
Nikon 135 2.0 AIS F2AS with MD2 on Tri-X pushed to 1600 ISO
From a teacher's perspective, film is the ideal medium as it "challenges" the student to pre-visualize in their mind's eye. And while digital has its place, it will never replace the film process, in my opinion. "Film is photography" ™. Hey, I like that.
The craft of loading a roll in the camera, pre-visualizing the image and then setting exposure, focus, shutter speed ...OO to printing and presentation.
I'm so relieved to know that the next generation is tracking on film. There is more to the craft of photography than just hammering the shutter with your eyes closed using the P setting on a digital camera.
And the time is ripe for the younger generation to get themselves a kick-ass film camera in 35 mm, 2 1/4, 4X5, 8X10 and beyond. Check out KEH or my pal at Vintage Visuals for your dream film system on the cheap. I was looking at a local used camera store and I was in awe of how little you need to get a Blad with 80 2.8, 40 f/4 and 150 2.8.
They're giving them away right now. But trust me, this trend isn't going to last. I predict in the coming years, classic film cameras will be worth big bucks. Especially if you've got the film, chemicals and paper to feed them.
I dug this 16-20 from a box of prints yesterday. Taken more than 20 years ago.
It's a shot of my cousin when we were both starving artists.
I just want to show a film shot that exhibits the cool factor.
Check out the story behind the image on the Nikon Cafe film section.
There is a little bit of a Leica invasion happening over there as well
."Film is photography"
Nikon 135 2.0 AIS F2AS with MD2 on Tri-X pushed to 1600 ISO
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wgerrard
Veteran
Consumerism has won.
I'd call it convenience rather than consumerism. Digital eliminates the people in the middle that other people need to pay to get pictures out of film. People want to view and share their photos online. You have to mail a glossy print from the drugstore to grandma. We don't use the post office to communicate with friends and family any more. Granny wants email or a text, too.
Aesthetic differences exist between film and digital (I'd argue most people can't really see them in the kind of routine snapshots they take.) Those differences are important to some rather finite number of people, a demographic many of us around here fall into. But, it is usually wrong to assume a personal aesthetic preference should govern the behavior of others.
alistair.o
Well-known
Interesting where the mind will lead one.
Lots of young people are 'forced' to wear school uniforms but it does not mean that after hours they all dress the same!
I started in digital (recent start as opposed to the 60's/early 70's which was film or film). After some time I wanted more than the chip could provide; the chip manufacturer or Nikon never offered me the pleasure of films/developing etc., etc.,. and so I am not offended by them and have not binned the Nikon D (God Forbid) in fact I use it for interior shoots - clients want instant and web designers want instant.
As has been said already, there will be those who look for more i.e. a different experience.
Al
Lots of young people are 'forced' to wear school uniforms but it does not mean that after hours they all dress the same!
I started in digital (recent start as opposed to the 60's/early 70's which was film or film). After some time I wanted more than the chip could provide; the chip manufacturer or Nikon never offered me the pleasure of films/developing etc., etc.,. and so I am not offended by them and have not binned the Nikon D (God Forbid) in fact I use it for interior shoots - clients want instant and web designers want instant.
As has been said already, there will be those who look for more i.e. a different experience.
Al
Uh, that's already happened. So many 20 year olds are disappointed when they find out my Leicas are digital.
I just don't get why so many people are so concerned over film vs. digital. It's all photography... digital is no less real than film. I've used both extensively and it is nonsense that people assume film is the only real way of doing serious photography.
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charjohncarter
Veteran
This may be correct, but it is hard to get them to use the 'manual' setting (which is the only way they will learn).
I think this is more important than the film vs. digital debate.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
the craft is in the medium *and* the processes *and* the history *and* the practitioners.
Mikeds80
Member
I am by no means a world class pro but digital seems almost too easy, or formulaic. You look for interesting angles and compositions, autofocus, fiddle with some manual settings and take the picture. Then you can edit them or upload them online but thats about it. If you screw up you know instantly and just redo it. If you aren't sure if the shot is even worth taking you just take it anyway. It's done with minimal time, or personal investment. I always end up with hundreds of images I don't care about and a few that I think are pretty "neat". Film is probably less convenient to shoot in every single aspect. But I love the idea of this because then you have to ask your self if the shot you are about to take is worth a place on your roll. You also do more work to make the image in your head a photo in reality, and that makes you much more personally invested in your work.
That is what draws me, a digital shooter, to film. I can't speak for all of my young peers, some probably just like the "vintage" look, but I know that it's about more than that for at least a few of us.
That is what draws me, a digital shooter, to film. I can't speak for all of my young peers, some probably just like the "vintage" look, but I know that it's about more than that for at least a few of us.
reiki_
Well-known
film gets you cheap full-frame. thats how it got me.
Prest_400
Multiformat
Exactly. They make anyone completely forget about film and thinking it's not the way, digital is the way instead.Advertising and marketing has been tauting digital photography as being better than film photography. Some bought the hype, others didn't. Some who did are now thinking they may have been mistaken. That about sums things up, don't you think, Joe?
I am younger than 20 and have been shooting for 2 years. I began with the need of a more serious camera and obviously the only thought choice was a DSLR, but the thing was expensive (it must be THAT one, not another).
So one day we had a family event and I wanted to cover it, my father reminded me of his old Nikon AF and film. It's heavy and noisy but used it.
When I got back the film processed with prints (Kodak 400) I was impressed. Even with that crappy kit, it was really impressing and much better than I thought. That colour rendition was good.
Marketing just makes you think "film is bad, obsolete; Digital is good, modern, etc", at least in my case.
After that, I researched the Olympus legacy (Brand I was interested in) and found the OM-1, lovely design.. Found someone who sold one refubrished on ebay and began to use it.
Not for coolness, it's just because I like film and how it is. Specially slides.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
well, 'relevant' in the sense that I don't think there is a correlation to the concept of 'negatives' in digital photography (maybe Raw processing?). One could say that the conversion of a negative to a positive is analogous to the post-processing step in digital, but then the digital post-processing step is optional, while the film conversion is necessary. It's not really crucial (relevant) to teaching the concepts of photography nowadays--unless one is teaching what some call 'analog' photography.
I think the real benefit of using film to teach photography is that it instills a sense of discipline (on the front end of the process) with respect to composition and choice. But one could just as easily transfer those editing skills to the back end of the process, which in itself is a valuable skill. (As a film photographer, I find it very hard to delete digital images.)
Anyway, kudos to the teacher for showing these kids the magic of film. No doubt, a couple of them will go forward properly exposed.
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