Thin Tele Elmarit - something strange?

[sleepyhead]

Hi Everyone.

I've recently bought a "thin short" tele elmarit (love the size and weight and general handling, by the way), but on close examination of several shots it appears to me that the lens is not as sharp at closer distances (say 1 to 4 meters) than it is when focused further away.

Has anyone else noticed this?

My initial reaction was to be upset, and maybe even considering to sell the lens for the larger current TE or VC Apo lanthar 90mm. On the other hand, perhaps ITS THE PERFECT PORTRAIT LENS and LANDSCAPE lens (the two things I use it most for): for portraits it's a little soft so every pore and wrinkle doesn't jump out at you, and further out its razor sharp.

Any user opinions? Thanks,
sleepyhead

 

[rover]

One thing you may want to do is to check the rear element for etching. This is an issued perhaps caused by the lubricants used when the lens was made at Leitz.

Shine a light through both ends and look through it carefully. You may see some spider webbing, or significant "hairs" in the elements, and a more definitive etching of the rear element. Serial numbers below 3,200,000 are more susceptible to this.

 

[sleepyhead]

I checked - no etching, glass is beautiful

 

[rover]

You need to use the flash light to see it. The glass will look great without it.

I just had one with the etching and decided to get the CV Lanthar to avoid the problem all together.

 

[sleepyhead]

Okay, I'll check it again tonight... Thanks

 

[peter_n]

What is the serial nr. of the lens?

 

[Ged]

I've read that many people find this lens flares quite badly. Have people here experienced this problem? Does it make the lens unusable for backlit shots? I'd be interested to see examples of this flare.

 

[richard_l]

I've read that many people find this lens flares quite badly. Have people here experienced this problem? Does it make the lens unusable for backlit shots? I'd be interested to see examples of this flare.

It's supposed to be used with the lens hood (#12575, I think). I haven't noticed any flare with mine.

 

[peter_n]

The lens is susceptible to flare but if you use a lens hood you will be OK. I use a Leica 12550 hood on mine (that's the hood for the current 50mm Elmar-M) and it works OK in the majority of circumstances. The lens can definitely be used for backlit shots. Great little lens. I'm at work now but when I get home I'll look for an example of flare for you - I think I know where I can find at least one as I've used the lens extensively.

BTW welcome to the forum Ged! 🙂

 

[Ged]

Thanks Peter and Richard! I've been thinking about getting one of these lenses but have hesitated due to some negative comments about it. With the 12575 hood, it becomes quite long and sort of works against the reasons I am attracted to the lens. If the 12550 works even though it is quite short, that would be great.

My apologies to sleepyhead for taking this thread off-topic...

 

[JNewell]

The image deterioration you're noticing at close range is inherent in the optical design, and I'm pretty sure that Leitz actually said so in writing when this lens was a current product. True telephone designs (as compared to long-focus designs) just don't do as well up close. This issue is different from flare and internal reflections, and also from the etching problem.

The 12575 hood is the best; shorter hoods give less protection, though if you point the lens toward a strong light source, no hood is going to help (you already knew that, but...).

 

[phototone]

True telephone designs (as compared to long-focus designs) just don't do as well up close.

Well, the last TRUE telephone design here in the United States would have to be the Princess phone of Western Electric. It worked up close just fine. 🙂

 

[sleepyhead]

Okay, so I checked the lens very carefully last night - no sign of this etching problem - PHEW!

The SN of my lens is: 3141890 - in the "suceptible zone"!.

BTW, I use a leica rubber hood that came with the lens, but as I have not had the lens for long, I can't comment on flaring problems.

I guess my current thinking is to buy a 90mm VC Apo lanthar and use both these lenses for a while and see which I like best. Any opinions from people who have experience in this matter would be appreciated.

Would it be fair to say that the VC lens won't have this issue of not performing as well up close?

THANKS

 

[peter_n]

Serial nr. 3141xxx should not have the problem and in any case only about 5% of the earliest TEs suffered from it. So anybody who has any vintage of this lens has a 95% probability that their lens is OK. Rover was one of the unlucky ones. 🙁

I haven't run across this focusing problem but then I can't say for sure I have used the lens at the closest focusing distance. Also interestingly enough, I couldn't find a snap with flare last night at home and I was sure I had one or two (sorry Ged). Guess that means the lens is perfect huh? 😀

 

[Ben Z]

Hi, I have the vers.1 "fat" version of the 90 T-E, used to have the current Elmarit-M, then got a mint non-APO E55 Summicron. I ended up selling the Elmarit-M because from 2.8-16 it was the same as the Cron, which gives me f/2. I kept the vers. 1 T-E for its size mostly. I use the 12575 shade and have always been pleased with the performance. Stopping down a couple stops is something I always do with any lens unless the light won't permit, or unless I specifically need super shallow depth of field. Stopping down 3-4 stops in the extreme close range is also something I try to do with any lens when possible. AFAIK and have always read, unless a lens has a FLE it can't be optimized for every distance, and most lenses are optimized for normal to long distance, except macro lenses. I've never owned the thin T-E, never found one without some internal coating problems when I used a flashlight.

 

[JNewell]

Well, the last TRUE telephone design here in the United States would have to be the Princess phone of Western Electric. It worked up close just fine. 🙂

Heh, yep, meant "telephoto." :bang:

But you evidently knew what I meant... 😉

If max aperture isn't a huge concern, the latest 90mm (an f/4 lens) from Leica is relatively compact and provides (according to reports) stunning images, even up close. The price doesn't look too bad, either, relative to the 90 SAA or even the current 90 Elmarit...though the close up adapter is almost as expensive as the lens itself...

 

[Nikon Bob]

Like Ben Z, I have the 90 Fat Tele-Elmarit and it came with the 12575 hood. No problems with flare so far and it is fine for portraits at F4 which would put it in the 1-4 meter range, I think. Love the small size compared to the F2 Cron especially as I do not need F2. Roger Hicks did a review of the CV APO 90 Lanthar lens a while back and he seemed to like it.

Bob

 

[awilder]

Can you post any examples of the softness at near vs. the sharp imaging at far? You may want to make sure RF coupling is accurate at 1 meter. It's conceivable that focus is fine at infinity but off at minimum focus. The best way to check is to bracket focus over several shots to see if focus on film matches the RF, especially at near..