sweathog
Well-known
Yesterday evening I went for a drink with an old friend of mine. He's just come out the other side of stomach cancer, he is, as he puts it, a cancer survivor.
We got to talking about cancer, the cancer community and the stigma attached to cancer in the UK. I found the conversation very interesting and informative, and at the same time very difficult. Difficult because cancer is such an enormous thing to deal with but also difficult because I know very little about dealing with cancer, living with cancer and losing people to it.
Both of my grandfathers died of cancer, but my parents shielded me from it, I suppose, being much younger at the time, so I really have no concept of seeing it.
Where all of this is going is that we were discussing the potential of documenting life with cancer, an attempt to show people the reality of cancer.
The way I aim to go about it is to start talking to people who were part of his support and medical teams at the hospital, and I aim to then progress to meeting patients on the ward and going from there.
This is where I have a few questions to ask the RFF community, because if I do go ahead with this I want to do it right.
I'm going to list a few questions and points and hope you guys could give me some feedback so I can see what direction to go.
1. Why shouldn't I go ahead with this project?
2. I plan to shoot the project in black and white. Can anybody think of reasons why I should opt for colour?
3. I want to show the reality of it; both the negative and the positive but also the middle ground. Once I am in a position with a person where they are ok with me photographing, how do I react if they ask me to stop? Both temporarily and permanently.
4. Is this something that you would want to see? Why and why not?
5. I assume that I will receive a lot of backlash from this kind of project, how should I deal with it?
6. Is it wrong to embark on a project like this motivated by, for lack of a better word, curiosity (more accurately a desire to know about something and to share that knowledge)?
7. Are there people who have already done this kind of work; if so, who?
I guess that's about it so far. I do genuinely look forward to your feedback. Of course, this project is in its very infant stages, so I don't know how far I'll be able to progress, or how quickly, but I've put a loose time scale of a year on this. Sorry if this is all a bit rambling.
Tom
We got to talking about cancer, the cancer community and the stigma attached to cancer in the UK. I found the conversation very interesting and informative, and at the same time very difficult. Difficult because cancer is such an enormous thing to deal with but also difficult because I know very little about dealing with cancer, living with cancer and losing people to it.
Both of my grandfathers died of cancer, but my parents shielded me from it, I suppose, being much younger at the time, so I really have no concept of seeing it.
Where all of this is going is that we were discussing the potential of documenting life with cancer, an attempt to show people the reality of cancer.
The way I aim to go about it is to start talking to people who were part of his support and medical teams at the hospital, and I aim to then progress to meeting patients on the ward and going from there.
This is where I have a few questions to ask the RFF community, because if I do go ahead with this I want to do it right.
I'm going to list a few questions and points and hope you guys could give me some feedback so I can see what direction to go.
1. Why shouldn't I go ahead with this project?
2. I plan to shoot the project in black and white. Can anybody think of reasons why I should opt for colour?
3. I want to show the reality of it; both the negative and the positive but also the middle ground. Once I am in a position with a person where they are ok with me photographing, how do I react if they ask me to stop? Both temporarily and permanently.
4. Is this something that you would want to see? Why and why not?
5. I assume that I will receive a lot of backlash from this kind of project, how should I deal with it?
6. Is it wrong to embark on a project like this motivated by, for lack of a better word, curiosity (more accurately a desire to know about something and to share that knowledge)?
7. Are there people who have already done this kind of work; if so, who?
I guess that's about it so far. I do genuinely look forward to your feedback. Of course, this project is in its very infant stages, so I don't know how far I'll be able to progress, or how quickly, but I've put a loose time scale of a year on this. Sorry if this is all a bit rambling.
Tom
dave lackey
Veteran
Cool...
Tom, if you really think it through with an ultimate goal in mind, I feel that such a project will be very rewarding personally and can actually help others. Organizations like Livestrong may be interested in publishing your results.
B&W is an excellent choice, however, the reality of cancer may be documented as well in color. B&W will give a different mood and transmit a different emotion than color. Why not both for varying situations? Don't forget the back stories... a result of unintended consequences.
Also, maybe an overall time constraint is unrealistic at this point but certainly, the flow of the situation, meeting people, etc. will determine your time involvement.
Very interesting. Keep us informed!
Caveat: When one immerses himself/herself in a photographic undertaking, one must become part of it. Are you sure you are up to it? I say this because having to daily, (24/7), deal with the possibility of death in my wife's long health ordeal over the past year has had a profound effect on me and has changed everything about me. I am no longer the person I used to be.... I really do not know how to explain it, good or bad, it is what it is. And I am doing nothing photographically in regard to this other than shooting the happy moments with family.:angel:
Last edited:
sig
Well-known
1. Why shouldn't I go ahead with this project?
No reason, but it have been before, many times
2. I plan to shoot the project in black and white. Can anybody think of reasons why I should opt for colour?
No reasons.
3. I want to show the reality of it; both the negative and the positive but also the middle ground. Once I am in a position with a person where they are ok with me photographing, how do I react if they ask me to stop? Both temporarily and permanently.
React? You say OK and stop.
4. Is this something that you would want to see? Why and why not?
No, it has been done before, there are a lot of cancer docus out there. Of cource if it was somebody close to me it might be different.
5. I assume that I will receive a lot of backlash from this kind of project, how should I deal with it?
Depend on who you get it from, if you get it from the cancer patient or people close to him/her you should step away, they most likely have enough problems as it is.
6. Is it wrong to embark on a project like this motivated by, for lack of a better word, curiosity (more accurately a desire to know about something and to share that knowledge)?
No, if you want to and find somebody who wants you to do it, why not?
7. Are there people who have already done this kind of work; if so, who?
Google it, you will get a lots of hits.
Cancer is very common, everybody has a friend/relative who have had it and survived, had it and died. It is not controversial at all to do a project about cancer and it has been done a lot. So it will not be a big 'value' for the world, but it might/will be very valuable for the persons involved.
No reason, but it have been before, many times
2. I plan to shoot the project in black and white. Can anybody think of reasons why I should opt for colour?
No reasons.
3. I want to show the reality of it; both the negative and the positive but also the middle ground. Once I am in a position with a person where they are ok with me photographing, how do I react if they ask me to stop? Both temporarily and permanently.
React? You say OK and stop.
4. Is this something that you would want to see? Why and why not?
No, it has been done before, there are a lot of cancer docus out there. Of cource if it was somebody close to me it might be different.
5. I assume that I will receive a lot of backlash from this kind of project, how should I deal with it?
Depend on who you get it from, if you get it from the cancer patient or people close to him/her you should step away, they most likely have enough problems as it is.
6. Is it wrong to embark on a project like this motivated by, for lack of a better word, curiosity (more accurately a desire to know about something and to share that knowledge)?
No, if you want to and find somebody who wants you to do it, why not?
7. Are there people who have already done this kind of work; if so, who?
Google it, you will get a lots of hits.
Cancer is very common, everybody has a friend/relative who have had it and survived, had it and died. It is not controversial at all to do a project about cancer and it has been done a lot. So it will not be a big 'value' for the world, but it might/will be very valuable for the persons involved.
Pablito
coco frío
even if you are an press-accredited photographer working for a media outlet and even if you have consent of the patient, you will have a very difficult time getting permission from hospital authorities, IF you plan to shoot in a hospital. At least in the US- don't know about UK. Does not mean you should not do it, of course.
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
You're worrying entirely too much about "what if's?"...do you believe in this idea, or not? No sense picking up a camera if you're going to defeat yourself before you even begin.
I would suggest becoming as specific as possible about what you're doing, and why you're doing it. Maybe start off with someone like your friend - who's come out the other side, as you put it. Maybe focus on people dealing with it, maybe with people helping those with cancer. Maybe all of it, who knows.
In other words, start looking for reasons to do it, not for reasons *not* to do it.
By way of help, may I suggest you search online for a group called PhotoSensitive and a project they did called The Cancer Project. I produced a photo for it, but so did dozens of photographers across Canada and the finished collection travelled all across the country. Some inspiring works there, and I think it may help you get started and get some ideas flowing.
Best of luck.
I would suggest becoming as specific as possible about what you're doing, and why you're doing it. Maybe start off with someone like your friend - who's come out the other side, as you put it. Maybe focus on people dealing with it, maybe with people helping those with cancer. Maybe all of it, who knows.
In other words, start looking for reasons to do it, not for reasons *not* to do it.
By way of help, may I suggest you search online for a group called PhotoSensitive and a project they did called The Cancer Project. I produced a photo for it, but so did dozens of photographers across Canada and the finished collection travelled all across the country. Some inspiring works there, and I think it may help you get started and get some ideas flowing.
Best of luck.
Gumby
Veteran
My suggestion is to start now. The earlier comments are quite true: this will not be a totally unique (one-of-a-kind) effort, but it will be for het family of your subject. Don't constrain to B&W - this shouldn't be about your artistic constraints, but about the images of your subject. He/she lives in a color world and color is a big part of cancer.
My sincere advise to you is to not be fooled by the rhetoric of "cancer survivor". There is no such thing except in the feel-good world of social workers. Cancer is a debilitator and killer; and it isn't generally a pretty thing to live through or see. At best your buddy is "in remission" like most of us. There is nothign to survive. Life in itself is a death sentence and cancer is just one of the ways we exit life. "Surviving cancer" only means that the inevitable is deferred. But trust me... being in remission leaves a scar and constant doubt about that remission. So what was survived -- nothing really!
The only questionof yours that I really want to address is the one of beign asked to stop. The answer should be obvious - STOP.
Good luck.
My sincere advise to you is to not be fooled by the rhetoric of "cancer survivor". There is no such thing except in the feel-good world of social workers. Cancer is a debilitator and killer; and it isn't generally a pretty thing to live through or see. At best your buddy is "in remission" like most of us. There is nothign to survive. Life in itself is a death sentence and cancer is just one of the ways we exit life. "Surviving cancer" only means that the inevitable is deferred. But trust me... being in remission leaves a scar and constant doubt about that remission. So what was survived -- nothing really!
The only questionof yours that I really want to address is the one of beign asked to stop. The answer should be obvious - STOP.
Good luck.
Gumby
Veteran
I thought I was finished with this thread until I went back and re-read Dave's posting. I can relate. Similar situation with my father. Two years of hospice; 24/7 and then some. Much of our levity during that period was about him "surviving hospice" and being one of the longer-enrolled members. The dark part of the humor was knowing that there is only one way to "graduate" from hospice.
My exeprience was not a photographic project (as I'm sure Dave's isn't either) but it was a project of love. I did pick up my camera from time to time but generally I recored events in memory. Memories that I wounldn't trade for anything, yet memories that haunt me.
A project "about cancer" is not really about photography, the photographer, artistry or even cancer, but about a person facing end-of-life and their family.
Dave asks some very valid questions.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
There is a stigma attached to cancer in the UK?
dmr
Registered Abuser
First of all, I admire your enthusiasm for this project. I would never even attempt such a thing myself. However, I think it has possibilities, both from a photojournalistic standpoint and from the perspective of exposing the lay public to an often swept under the rug facet of human life.
Having worked in a large hospital (clinical lab and pulmonary) I can hopefully give you some pointers on a few things ...
Every hospital has a Public Affairs staff. A cold call to them will most likely be rebuffed by a stock "confidentiality" response. (Insert the endless loop lawsuit argument here.)
A means that I might suggest would be to hook up with a physician who is a medical oncologist or is in a related specialty and propose your project to him or her. The physicians are often times not employees of the hospitals, but will have admitting privileges at several in the area. He or she might be able to find some patients willing to participate in such a project, and will be able to help cut the "red tape" as far as hospital cooperation is concerned. (Trust me, attending physicians, particularly those of "rainmaker" standing, have a LOT of clout with the hospitals in which they practice!)
That would be my approach, if I were to embark on such a project ...
Having worked in a large hospital (clinical lab and pulmonary) I can hopefully give you some pointers on a few things ...
Every hospital has a Public Affairs staff. A cold call to them will most likely be rebuffed by a stock "confidentiality" response. (Insert the endless loop lawsuit argument here.)
A means that I might suggest would be to hook up with a physician who is a medical oncologist or is in a related specialty and propose your project to him or her. The physicians are often times not employees of the hospitals, but will have admitting privileges at several in the area. He or she might be able to find some patients willing to participate in such a project, and will be able to help cut the "red tape" as far as hospital cooperation is concerned. (Trust me, attending physicians, particularly those of "rainmaker" standing, have a LOT of clout with the hospitals in which they practice!)
That would be my approach, if I were to embark on such a project ...
Brian Levy
Established
I'll comment as someone who has been going through cancer for about a year and found less about the entire course from discovery through diagnois to procedure to followup than one might expect. While at the Princess Margaret Hospital in the radiation unit for a daily dose I had a chance to speak with others and there was a universal frustration over some tyoe of start to finish ducumentary. Of course there are so many variables and variations it would be all but impossible to cover it all and do it in a lifetime.
It might be more feasible to find a single person and document his/her story from discovery to finish and produce a video so you could include something that still photography would be hard pressed to convey; the inner feelings and emotional roller coaster ride of the patient, family and staff.
Doing a still image documentary or in color probably enter into it as depending on the image being captured, a mix would probably be the better approach. Photographing a stoma which is bright red probably will have more ompact than seeing only a b&w image that included it. Also, things like incisions would stand out better from what I've seen. Just some thoughts.
As for sponsors, etc. I'd sugggest talking to the cancer departments in the hospitals. Here and in the US they fund publications and might be supportive of such a project; this would help in gaining access to otherwise restricted areas also.
On a personal note, be prepared for a very emotional person expereince. It is not a pretty subject. I've seen and been with children as young as 2 going through it and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I've never been reduced to tears before this.
It might be more feasible to find a single person and document his/her story from discovery to finish and produce a video so you could include something that still photography would be hard pressed to convey; the inner feelings and emotional roller coaster ride of the patient, family and staff.
Doing a still image documentary or in color probably enter into it as depending on the image being captured, a mix would probably be the better approach. Photographing a stoma which is bright red probably will have more ompact than seeing only a b&w image that included it. Also, things like incisions would stand out better from what I've seen. Just some thoughts.
As for sponsors, etc. I'd sugggest talking to the cancer departments in the hospitals. Here and in the US they fund publications and might be supportive of such a project; this would help in gaining access to otherwise restricted areas also.
On a personal note, be prepared for a very emotional person expereince. It is not a pretty subject. I've seen and been with children as young as 2 going through it and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I've never been reduced to tears before this.
Ronald M
Veteran
You don`t need photos, you need movies with sound effects.
Lost my 91 year old farther to second hand smoke induced lung cancer last week.
I got to watch as he got weaker and weaker,was put on oxygen, a drain was put in the chest to remove fluid outside the lungs, then his lungs filled inside with fluid,
and he slowly drowned. All I can say is thank God for hospice care. A movie of this would do more to stop smoking than all the still photos & thirty second spots on television.
We all remember Al Kaplan who has been gone a year now. Self induced cancer.
My maternal grandfather, self induced lung cancer around 1960.
My paternal grandfather, self induced heart disease from Chesterfields or Camels, I forget.
My son in laws mother, half her tung removed and a good portion of lower jaw. Self induced from smoking. She goes around and lectures to high school students.
And this is just my family. Thousands more out there.
Put the things away forever.
Lost my 91 year old farther to second hand smoke induced lung cancer last week.
I got to watch as he got weaker and weaker,was put on oxygen, a drain was put in the chest to remove fluid outside the lungs, then his lungs filled inside with fluid,
and he slowly drowned. All I can say is thank God for hospice care. A movie of this would do more to stop smoking than all the still photos & thirty second spots on television.
We all remember Al Kaplan who has been gone a year now. Self induced cancer.
My maternal grandfather, self induced lung cancer around 1960.
My paternal grandfather, self induced heart disease from Chesterfields or Camels, I forget.
My son in laws mother, half her tung removed and a good portion of lower jaw. Self induced from smoking. She goes around and lectures to high school students.
And this is just my family. Thousands more out there.
Put the things away forever.
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
As an add-on, I can say that I documented a friend in her (ultimately fatal) battle with cancer. I visited her a few times in hospital -- with the patient's consent, you should be alright but you're well off to talk with the doctor and any related staff as well.
Bureaucracy in Canada in the health field is gigantic, but I was able to do it.
Again: best of luck.
Bureaucracy in Canada in the health field is gigantic, but I was able to do it.
Again: best of luck.
Paul_C
Established
Off-topic, but there's nothing "feel-good" about a social worker's world.
antiquark
Derek Ross
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I'd second the opinion that you need to really mentally prepare yourself for this kind of endeavor in a few ways.
A part of it will stick with you for the rest of your life in your mind and those images but you, the photographer, have the ability to walk away from it when it is convenient for you. Know that they know that and you'll never be able to really get past that divide. Not that it will hinder you, just be honest to yourself and those you are working with.
The other thing is the secondary trauma. I did a 3 day shoot of children in the UNM Children's Hospital oncology ward and it was heartbreaking. One of the hardest but still most rewarding projects I've done. You come away from those things a bit scarred, so be prepared for that. In a way it was harder than the 6 months of combat photography I did in Iraq.
Good luck.
Phil Forrest
A part of it will stick with you for the rest of your life in your mind and those images but you, the photographer, have the ability to walk away from it when it is convenient for you. Know that they know that and you'll never be able to really get past that divide. Not that it will hinder you, just be honest to yourself and those you are working with.
The other thing is the secondary trauma. I did a 3 day shoot of children in the UNM Children's Hospital oncology ward and it was heartbreaking. One of the hardest but still most rewarding projects I've done. You come away from those things a bit scarred, so be prepared for that. In a way it was harder than the 6 months of combat photography I did in Iraq.
Good luck.
Phil Forrest
Gumby
Veteran
Equally off-topic: from the perspective of a cancer patient in remission, it is certainly "feel good" when social workers host "survivor parties" and make people think they "dodged a bullet". Other than that, I really value social workers and what they do... especially considering that none of them ever seem to get paid or appreciated enough.
Turtle
Veteran
Photographing something meaningful to you is the best possible place to start any project. Curiosity is another word for wanting to understand things. Just because you feel others do and you don't does not mean your desire to understand is less than worthy.
Yes this has been done many times before, but when it is personal, it matters much less. My suggestion would be to think long and hard about it, rather than rushing in, and to try to find a facet or angle which has not been heavily covered and which you find very interesting. There may be a very specific niche within this huge topic which you can cover, providing insight not available through other work. Don't be afraid of narrowing things down an awful lot.
Good luck and just remember, as long as you are respectful and have consent and good intentions, you are on firm ground.
Yes this has been done many times before, but when it is personal, it matters much less. My suggestion would be to think long and hard about it, rather than rushing in, and to try to find a facet or angle which has not been heavily covered and which you find very interesting. There may be a very specific niche within this huge topic which you can cover, providing insight not available through other work. Don't be afraid of narrowing things down an awful lot.
Good luck and just remember, as long as you are respectful and have consent and good intentions, you are on firm ground.
dmr
Registered Abuser
Back when I was with the hospital, we had MSWs who were paid less than some of the cleaning people! No I'm not making this up! For a degreed professional, they were about the lowest paid there were! Only lower ones I can think of were some research techs on some grant-funded projects.
blackwave
silver halide lover
A few things to keep in mind for this sort of project..
- Be careful to take photos of what you're actually seeing, and not just take the photos that fit the preconceived notion of cancer. Once you're engaged with the patients, you may find that their life is not what you expected.
- Remember that cancer is not contained in the walls of hospitals and doctors' offices. The patients have a whole life outside those visits.
- Different types of cancer are really entirely different diseases, so one person's experience is probably much, much different than another's. You'll find some people's experience is more like a chronic disease, and some are fast and overwhelming. Some stories will lift you up, and some will devastate you.
- It's somewhat common to see blogs written about people's experiences, so I'd search for those to get a feel for what you're getting into. Here's a young girl who passed a few years back. It's mostly written by her husband and covers just under two years, the first year with her fighting cancer. http://www.jenniferireland.blogs.com/ You'll find links to other blogs on the right side.
Good luck with your project! I hope you're able to show cancer in an honest light.
- Be careful to take photos of what you're actually seeing, and not just take the photos that fit the preconceived notion of cancer. Once you're engaged with the patients, you may find that their life is not what you expected.
- Remember that cancer is not contained in the walls of hospitals and doctors' offices. The patients have a whole life outside those visits.
- Different types of cancer are really entirely different diseases, so one person's experience is probably much, much different than another's. You'll find some people's experience is more like a chronic disease, and some are fast and overwhelming. Some stories will lift you up, and some will devastate you.
- It's somewhat common to see blogs written about people's experiences, so I'd search for those to get a feel for what you're getting into. Here's a young girl who passed a few years back. It's mostly written by her husband and covers just under two years, the first year with her fighting cancer. http://www.jenniferireland.blogs.com/ You'll find links to other blogs on the right side.
Good luck with your project! I hope you're able to show cancer in an honest light.
Red Rock Bill
Well-known
Tom, I have done this very thing. It delt with my 3 yr old grandson and was a year long project.I became involved as I spent a great deal of time with him during surgery in Albuquerque,Proton treatment at M.D. Anderson in Houston and chemo at Texas Childrens also in Houston.I never encountered any problems with access and was encouraged by DRs. and staff to photograph whatever I wanted.He and I spent weeks and weeks together as his parents had to work and I was in a position to take the time off to be with him.It became a documentary of his life and those in contact with him.I used a small digital camera which was not at all intrusive (Leica D-Lux3) and never used flash.Most of what he went through was a blur to his parents when they were able to be with him.After the treatments were over I edited those thousand odd images down to 25 and printed them.They were hung in a gallery and friends and family were able to get a small idea of what went on for that very intense year.We live in a small town and many medical folks showed up to see what went on in world famous medical facilities.I didn't realize how much it affected me .I have had a difficult time getting on track with my photography since .Maybe it was being so personally involved in his life.When I look back at those photos I can't imagine what was going on in his mind.Yes I know it became"his life" but still......proceed with caution you will never be the same. Regards,Bill