RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Yes way!
I don't have decibel data either, so I wouldn't put money on your last sentence (either way). However, I understand what you're saying. I've done similar side-by-side comparisons, and the sound is different. So, I will amend my statement: The sound of the ZI is considerably more noticeable than the sound of an M7 shutter. THAT I stand by, because I've seen it (heard it) in action. /
mfogiel
Veteran
I have the 0,58 and 0,85x M7's and a ZI, I find the ZI fantastic for the 35mm frames, and for low light shooting. In fact it is married most of the time to the 35/1.2 Nokton. The M7 0.85x has the 75mm frame removed, and I use it 99% of the time with a 50mm lens. I think that actually this is the best modification you can do. I think it would be difficult to justify selling the ZI for a 0.72x M7 - the ZI is simply a better camera, although the Leicas are great for the feel good factor. But you probably know this already. Another great addition to my M7's are Luigi half cases with grip - this makes a lot of difference, particularly when you shoot in vertical orientation.
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RichardB
Well-known
"the ZI is simply a better camera, although the Leicas are great for the feel good factor. But you probably know this already. Another great addition to my M7's are Luigi half cases with grip - this makes a lot of difference, particularly when you shoot in vertical orientation."
Some of us use Motor M's with their M7's and even a Leicavit at times, something the Z1 cannot do. So the statement about "a better camera" certainly needs qualification. Personally I will go with the 60 year design life of the M system.
BTW, the use of the Motor M negates the need for a case with grip.-Dick
Some of us use Motor M's with their M7's and even a Leicavit at times, something the Z1 cannot do. So the statement about "a better camera" certainly needs qualification. Personally I will go with the 60 year design life of the M system.
BTW, the use of the Motor M negates the need for a case with grip.-Dick
Freakscene
Obscure member
Yes, but that doesn't work when all the LED in the viewfinder light up simultaneously, or when the ISO dial is working correctly but the viewfinder says "ASA 100" or whatever the error message is anyway, or when the viewfinder says 560 but the shutter opens for an audible period of time, or . . . I could go on. My M7 has been problematic.
I should have been worried and traded it for another when the slotted washer under the rewind knob kept coming loose within 6 months of me getting it. I somehow can't bring myself to do it now.
Yes, I don't pretend my camera is normal in any way, and it won't stop me from looking for a 0.58 M7 to accompany it.
Marty
chrism
Well-known
I sold two M7s for two MPs, largely for the improved feel during use. I'm talking about things that some will find silly, like the smoothness of the film advance lever. Important enough to me to give up aperture priority exposure, and the (anathema! heresy!) far more sensible shutter speed dial of the M7 (and others, such as the M6TTL, M8, M8.2 and M9). An MP with a large "wrong way" shutter speed dial would be very heaven to me.
Chris
Chris
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Have I got an M7 for you....
I get the impression that there are far fewer cameras like yours and my troublesome M7 than many people think- I've had five M7s over the years and only this one has been a real pain. The ISO dial spin clears up any issues in all but one of my cameras for a long time. That one was in Germany for months but the first time I used it when it returned I got the 'ASA' flashing. Changed the batteries and it worked fine for several rolls, but then the batteries went flat. So there is still something wrong. I've got another two weeks or so that I need to use it before it takes another vacation. I should just sell it, but I'd certainly not get much for it in this state. Darren, you were looking for a .58 also...
robert blu
quiet photographer
@ Nikkor AIS: You say : "If you know where to point it's a very, very accurate meter" and you have very good night image in your post above, would you be so kind to teach me a little ? Which film (iso?) and special metering or just camera metering pointing on the subject?
Thank you
robert
Thank you
robert
Freakscene
Obscure member
Interesting, because my M7s are better in those regards than my MP. Maybe I got a dud MP, or my M7s just have unusually smooth transports. I don't remember what they were like when they were new, maybe I just wore them in.
Marty
lawrence
Veteran
I've had my M7 for about a year and last month finally got to using it extensively. I think it's a fairly early one because it has the old DX reader but this doesn't give a problem. However, there are a few things that bug me about this camera!
1. The blinking LED at bottom of the v/f is mad. If I set the film speed manually then I don't need a blinking LED to tell me this. If I didn't know what I was doing I'd just leave it on DX, right?
2. Even when you leave it on DX without any +/- compensation the LED sometimes decides to blink anyway.
3. The delay when you switch it on and it goes through a system check is annoying and can lead to lost opportunities.
4. You do have to remember to switch off when you put it in a camera bag otherwise batteries go dead. For some reason I could get away with not switching off my M6TTL.
5. How come you have to change to a manual shutter speed when shooting off the film leader? Surely it could be smart enough to figure out that frames < 1 need to be shot at 1/1000th or 1/125 or whatever?
6. Sometimes it just gives a slow (incorrect) shutter speed for no apparent reason.
7. There is no quick way to make +/- exposure compensation, as you can with the Bessa R4A for example.
On the plus side I do like the heft, quietness and lack of vibration and consequently can hand hold at slow speeds easily (but this applies to any M Leica). I haven't owned a ZM but a friend of mine got rid of his because he couldn't see the shutter speeds in bright light (bit of a problem if you live in Southern California!). In summary, I do like the M7 but trust Leica to take over 20 years to make an aperture priority M rangefinder and still not get it right!
1. The blinking LED at bottom of the v/f is mad. If I set the film speed manually then I don't need a blinking LED to tell me this. If I didn't know what I was doing I'd just leave it on DX, right?
2. Even when you leave it on DX without any +/- compensation the LED sometimes decides to blink anyway.
3. The delay when you switch it on and it goes through a system check is annoying and can lead to lost opportunities.
4. You do have to remember to switch off when you put it in a camera bag otherwise batteries go dead. For some reason I could get away with not switching off my M6TTL.
5. How come you have to change to a manual shutter speed when shooting off the film leader? Surely it could be smart enough to figure out that frames < 1 need to be shot at 1/1000th or 1/125 or whatever?
6. Sometimes it just gives a slow (incorrect) shutter speed for no apparent reason.
7. There is no quick way to make +/- exposure compensation, as you can with the Bessa R4A for example.
On the plus side I do like the heft, quietness and lack of vibration and consequently can hand hold at slow speeds easily (but this applies to any M Leica). I haven't owned a ZM but a friend of mine got rid of his because he couldn't see the shutter speeds in bright light (bit of a problem if you live in Southern California!). In summary, I do like the M7 but trust Leica to take over 20 years to make an aperture priority M rangefinder and still not get it right!
I'm a big believer that it is better to have one great camera that you feel you really want to use than to have three ok cameras (in this case, still great cameras) that work fine, but don't really do it for you. While it is popular to say cameras are only tools, I do believe that certain cameras make you want to use them more and are more comfortable in use.
TEZillman
Well-known
There are a couple things that Lawrence says here that I disagree with and as the OP is trying to make a decision, I thought I'd post an opposing viewpoint.
1. Reference to "old" DX reader. The M7 was introduced in 2002. The optical reader was introduced in October of 2006. I would guess that the vast majority of M7s that are available used have the "old" reader as film camera sales have dropped of in the last four years. I bought mine in 2004 and I've never had an issue with the "old" reader. I'm of the opinion that if its not broke don't fix it.
2. There is a LED about the size of a period on your computer screen that blinks when exposure compensation is dialed in or the ISO is set manually. Its there as a warning. It does remind you to check. Otherwise, in my opinion anyway, it easy to ignore.
3. I've never found mine to blink for an unknown reason.
4. The delay when turning on the camera lasts two seconds. Unless you are holding the camera to your eye when you turn it on, it is unlikely to cause a delay or a missed opportunity. During the two seconds the film speed is shown in the viewfinder. I find that if I turn the camera on at arms length, it is difficult to get the camera to your eye in time to see the film speed.
5. If you leave the camera on it turns off automatically after several seconds. The meter also turns off after you've pushed the shutter release until you wind on. I've never drained the batteries on mine by leaving it on.
6. In terms of shooting off the leader, my M7's meter and auto exposure works all the time as long as the shutter is cocked.
7. Mine has never given an incorrect shutter speed other than when it is fooled by an overly light or dark scene. Which is true of all similar meters.
8. The way to make a quick =/- exposure setting in AE mode is to point the meter to another object with a lighter or darker tone and lock the exposure by partially pushing the shutter.
I don't mean any offense to Lawrence here, just stating a difference of opinion. I bought the camera 6 years ago now and have had absolutely no issues with it. I'm kicking myself now for buying the then available extended warranty for the full seven years. Of course I suppose something could still happen before next March.
lawrence
Veteran
I think it's because the shutter button is pushing on inside of the bag but strangely this was not an issue with the M6TTL.
Which can be a pain in dark surroundings and the auto shutter speed is lengthy and you want to start shooting.
Sometimes it's nice to dial in compensation for a few shots, rather than to keep pointing somewhere else for every shot. Anyway, I feel that the Bessa R4A is better designed in the department.
None taken
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Robert:
I believe that shot was taken with Ektar 100. As far as where to point the meter of the M7, it's centre-metered and so I look for an
18% grey in the frame or point to the middle tone, to get me in the zone.
Grass is 18%; so is the palm of my hand. Which is handy to know when there are bright or really dark areas in the frame.
Knowing that the meter in any camera/meter is a guide and must be interpreted is vital to understanding exposure with the M7. Well, almost any camera for that matter. Even the matrix metering on my D3 can be fooled.
I learned to trust my judgment on exposure especially when shooting slides, but even with negative film it's still important.
There is an old rule of thumb, "Expose for the shadows, print for the highlights" when using negative film.
Slides are the opposite.
While overly simplistic, it's a step in the right direction.
Then you have the whole thing about temperature/concentration of developer and agitation and its role in contrast, the choice of film, the contrast of the scene. Even the lens being used ...OO.
The possibilities are infinite with film.
I know it's not easy but learning to see the light and guess is a really good exercise in determining exposure. Many on this forum do very well with no meter and nothing but their own judgment and their eye and experience to get the right exposure. A case could be made that it is a more pure form of photography than using AE. I know I feel like that when I use my M3.
Still, if the batteries are fresh, it's nice to be able to confirm my best guess with the M7. I like to think of it as, the camera and I are a team. I'm nothing without it, it is nothing without me. Work together and good things can happen. I never blame the camera for a bad photo.
I hope this helps. If not, feel free to PM me and we can chat some more.
Leica 50 1.0 Noctilux on Leica M7.
I believe that shot was taken with Ektar 100. As far as where to point the meter of the M7, it's centre-metered and so I look for an
18% grey in the frame or point to the middle tone, to get me in the zone.
Grass is 18%; so is the palm of my hand. Which is handy to know when there are bright or really dark areas in the frame.
Knowing that the meter in any camera/meter is a guide and must be interpreted is vital to understanding exposure with the M7. Well, almost any camera for that matter. Even the matrix metering on my D3 can be fooled.
I learned to trust my judgment on exposure especially when shooting slides, but even with negative film it's still important.
There is an old rule of thumb, "Expose for the shadows, print for the highlights" when using negative film.
Slides are the opposite.
While overly simplistic, it's a step in the right direction.
Then you have the whole thing about temperature/concentration of developer and agitation and its role in contrast, the choice of film, the contrast of the scene. Even the lens being used ...OO.
The possibilities are infinite with film.
I know it's not easy but learning to see the light and guess is a really good exercise in determining exposure. Many on this forum do very well with no meter and nothing but their own judgment and their eye and experience to get the right exposure. A case could be made that it is a more pure form of photography than using AE. I know I feel like that when I use my M3.
Still, if the batteries are fresh, it's nice to be able to confirm my best guess with the M7
. I like to think of it as, the camera and I are a team. I'm nothing without it, it is nothing without me. Work together and good things can happen. I never blame the camera for a bad photo. I hope this helps. If not, feel free to PM me and we can chat some more.
Leica 50 1.0 Noctilux on Leica M7.
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Freakscene
Obscure member
Leica will replace the DX reader to the new type for free if you get your M7 serviced. In fact, if you get it serviced and you do NOT want to have it replaced i'd recommend putting this explicitly on the request form.
Marty
Marty
steveyork
Well-known
I bought a used mint M7 for what I think is a fair price less than a year ago.
I couldn't be happier. I have since added an MP and a motor drive to the fold. The motor drive lives on the M7. I used it last winter up to -20 and all this summer and it performed flawlessly.
I keep a couple of sets of batteries in the bag and two sets for the motor drive. So far, I've put several hundreds of rolls of film through it.
The M7 and the MP are the reasons I still haven't got an M9. Well, that and $7,000
In fact, just today, I ordered another couple of boxes (50 rolls) of Tri-X. And I'm hunting down some TMZ 32000 for low light. I'm getting ready for the long winter and lots of indoor low-light shooting.
I love the AE on the M7, I use it all the time. If you know where to point it's a very, very accurate meter.
Mated with a motor drive, the M7 is a picture-taking machine.
I want to love the MP more but in truth I grab the M7 for the majority of shots. I trust it as much as any camera I've ever owned (Nikon F2, F2AS, F3T).
In fact, while writing this post, I just took what I think will be a very nice sequence with the M7 motor and the Noct in my condo. I'll post it later this week when I get the film run.
Me too -- an MP and an M7. I've had the MP since it was released, and I got the M7 this spring on a great demo deal to shoot a bunch of slide film. I find the convenience of the AE great, but it has turned me into a little bit of a snap happy camper. Some of the reason is that I'm trying too to get through a bunch of Kodachrome. But no problems with the M7.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Oh to Hell with an M7...think about a 'Barnack' ....
just Teasing though I do Love them...
Cheers- H
just Teasing though I do Love them...
Cheers- H
robert blu
quiet photographer
@ Nikkor AIS: Many thanks for your answer. generally speaking I have no problem metering with the m7, both slides and B&W: But I'm starting now a "nocturne" project (where I have no experience) and your picture is so perfect that made me curious !
Thanks again, ciao
robert
Thanks again, ciao
robert
sper
Well-known
I 2nd the notion of going for the M6. The M7s are over priced and have M8 era Leica reliablity. Your ZI is a fantastic camera! I wish I could afford one.