shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Folks if you want to get an MF folder, this is NOT how to go about it:
'bay id: 360006586621
It irritated me that in this day and age some people just blow away ridiculous amount of money that can be avoided with a light use of the info on the internet.
Yes, maybe 350USD is a microscopic drop of water for this buyer, but still... ignorance is stupid in this case.
Ok, rant over
'bay id: 360006586621
It irritated me that in this day and age some people just blow away ridiculous amount of money that can be avoided with a light use of the info on the internet.
Yes, maybe 350USD is a microscopic drop of water for this buyer, but still... ignorance is stupid in this case.
Ok, rant over
kuzano
Veteran
I saw that...
I saw that...
I kind of have my eye out for another old Bessa RF, but certainly not a Helomar lens model. People are going nuts on these old Bessa Rangefinders. I think the similar spellings of the 3 element Helomar and the 5 element Heliar are a bit of the problem on this one. However, on that price, I would surely hold out for one with the dual format gate for the film plane.
The seller puts up an impressive listing, but his inventory is fairly pedestrian. I am following the auction on the black Pen F. (By the way, Ernest Hemingways camera was a half frame Pen F - trivia) The prices on black Pen F and Ft models has been "nutsified" also by buyers. This particular camera looks pretty shabby when you peer at the pictures long enough.
You are right about one thing however. People with more money than brains seem to be skyrocketing these prices. I spent years in the collector car game, and I was always shifting from Marque to Marque as "investors" would drive the market out of reach for knowledgable car people. It's an emotional impulse buy for these kind of people. The sad part is that they have the money in the first place to throw away without consideration of real value.
I saw that...
I kind of have my eye out for another old Bessa RF, but certainly not a Helomar lens model. People are going nuts on these old Bessa Rangefinders. I think the similar spellings of the 3 element Helomar and the 5 element Heliar are a bit of the problem on this one. However, on that price, I would surely hold out for one with the dual format gate for the film plane.
The seller puts up an impressive listing, but his inventory is fairly pedestrian. I am following the auction on the black Pen F. (By the way, Ernest Hemingways camera was a half frame Pen F - trivia) The prices on black Pen F and Ft models has been "nutsified" also by buyers. This particular camera looks pretty shabby when you peer at the pictures long enough.
You are right about one thing however. People with more money than brains seem to be skyrocketing these prices. I spent years in the collector car game, and I was always shifting from Marque to Marque as "investors" would drive the market out of reach for knowledgable car people. It's an emotional impulse buy for these kind of people. The sad part is that they have the money in the first place to throw away without consideration of real value.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
You can argue that the real value of an item is what somebody is willing to pay for it when you want to sell it. Sadly that may not have any relation to what you think the item is worth. It is really hard to compete with deep pockets at times.
Bob
Bob
YEGEY
-
I don't see what is a big deal here? Well, the only thing that MAYBE makes it a bit overpriced - is that that camera has a lower quality lens. Had it been one with Heliar it would sell for much more. This was a good price for a same camera with the Skopar, if it's indeed in a condition that it looks.
This surprises you, but the fact that there are things right here on RFF sold for rediculous prices doesn't? We are supposed to be more knowledgable here, right? And not screw over our fellow RFFs, yet there is a Canon HOOD for a Canon 50/1.2 lens selling for $200, while on Ebay it's for $80. Amazing!
This surprises you, but the fact that there are things right here on RFF sold for rediculous prices doesn't? We are supposed to be more knowledgable here, right? And not screw over our fellow RFFs, yet there is a Canon HOOD for a Canon 50/1.2 lens selling for $200, while on Ebay it's for $80. Amazing!
oscroft
Veteran
I bet you wouldn't be complaining if you were the seller
Brennotdan
Established
kuzano said:
We can always hope that this type will take the hit when it goes back up on ebay in a year
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
YEGEY said:
YEGEY, did I say this is a big deal?
I said I was irritated. Me being irritated is not a big deal, not to me at least.
I wish people would do a light reading before plunking that kind of money. That's all.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
oscroft said:I bet you wouldn't be complaining if you were the seller
I don't know, but I know I won't be laughing if I were the buyer
seriously, I wasn't complaining. Is raising awareness considered as complaining these days? (sigh)....
Thardy
Veteran
I've passed up some really good deals on eBay by just staring at the BIN button. Someone comes along and snags a great item while I'm playing the should I or shouldn't I game.
In the meantime I'm ordering laptop computers and many other high dollar items for members of my family. (for holiday gifts).
Hmm, all my family members are women/girls , I work extremely hard to buy expensive things for them. (big fancy house, cars, tuition at a fancy prep school) and I'm afraid to pull the trigger on a $1000 camera for myself.
In the meantime I'm ordering laptop computers and many other high dollar items for members of my family. (for holiday gifts).
Hmm, all my family members are women/girls , I work extremely hard to buy expensive things for them. (big fancy house, cars, tuition at a fancy prep school) and I'm afraid to pull the trigger on a $1000 camera for myself.
Krosya
Konicaze
I look at these things very simple - if it's worth it to me at any given price - thats the price I'll pay. Some might think it's stupid, but it's how I do it. On the other hand, like above example of Canon 35/2 RF lens - It may be a good one, but I just don't need one, so I wouldn't buy it either. I suppose I could re-sell it, but I'm not in that business.
There are some things I really want and I get them, even at somewhat higher price. Not always. But often enough. So, maybe whoever bought that Bessa folder really wanted one. It looks nice. So why not?
Would I do it - no, but I don't need one either. But than again, ask a regular person, who knows nothing about Leica why in the world we pay so much for a Summilux? Same thing really.
There are some things I really want and I get them, even at somewhat higher price. Not always. But often enough. So, maybe whoever bought that Bessa folder really wanted one. It looks nice. So why not?
Would I do it - no, but I don't need one either. But than again, ask a regular person, who knows nothing about Leica why in the world we pay so much for a Summilux? Same thing really.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
The $80 you keep referring to is the start price for an auction not the sale price. By your reasoning if anybody offered an M3 for more than $15, then they would be overcharging because there is one for sale here http://cgi.ebay.com/Leitz-Leica-M3-...ryZ30030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ($10.50 when I looked)
If anybody is trying to screw another RFF member is is not the seller of the hood. The general concensus is that he is asking for a reasonable price for a scarce collectable item in unusual condition. You might not pay that much for it but that doesn't make it unfair. What is unfair is that you are trying to spoil another's members sale!
Kim
If anybody is trying to screw another RFF member is is not the seller of the hood. The general concensus is that he is asking for a reasonable price for a scarce collectable item in unusual condition. You might not pay that much for it but that doesn't make it unfair. What is unfair is that you are trying to spoil another's members sale!
Kim
YEGEY said:
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Krosya said:There are some things I really want and I get them, even at somewhat higher price. Not always. But often enough. So, maybe whoever bought that Bessa folder really wanted one. It looks nice. So why not?
Would I do it - no, but I don't need one either. But than again, ask a regular person, who knows nothing about Leica why in the world we pay so much for a Summilux? Same thing really.
Krosya, to me it's not the same thing. I paid reasonably for the cameras that I know I am going to keep and use. But I did my homework prior to that. I'm sure you do the same thing.
In this case, most likely the buyer thought he's buying a Bessa RF with the Heliar lens. Instead he got the Helomar. Big difference in price and value.
Is it my business what these buyers do with their money? Of course not, I'm simply pointing this out for others who wanted a good quality MF folder.
kuzano
Veteran
Thardy said:
If the price on BIN is truly a good price, and if you are inclined to pay that price if the auction were to run full course, HIT THE BUTTON... don't wait. The fact that the auction may currently be at half of the BIN does not mean somebody else won't take advantage of it while you are deliberating. The knowledge level of the buyers on eBay is ramping up, and really good BIN prices don't sit long.
That advice is predicated of course on a good auction, with good description and pictures, along with a seller who has 99 or 100% feedback for honesty and descriptions. And on the 99% guy, the 1% should be reasonable and explainable. Anytime I see a good person who has a couple of feedbacks, I jump another level and look at the feedback of the person who left a negative for the good guy. More often than not the people who leave bad feedback turn out to be feedback whores themselves. I'm not saying don't leave negative feedback. Just be sure you leave it for good reasons. And DO leave negative feedback if you've been taken for a ride. If you are not sure a feedback should be negative, then leave a neutral. At least it shows you had some dissatisfaction.
Krosya
Konicaze
shadowfox said:
Well, maybe, but I don't think this was the case - it was clearly marked as Helomar, at least to me. Plus we really don't know buyers reasons either. For all we can speculate, maybe that buyer has a beat-up brkoen Bessa with Heliar, and now will have a very nice body to put it on and resell for more money, or keep as great condition Bessa with top of the line lens? Woo knows, right?
FallisPhoto
Veteran
shadowfox said:Folks if you want to get an MF folder, this is NOT how to go about it:
'bay id: 360006586621
It irritated me that in this day and age some people just blow away ridiculous amount of money that can be avoided with a light use of the info on the internet.
Yes, maybe 350USD is a microscopic drop of water for this buyer, but still... ignorance is stupid in this case.
Ok, rant over
About 10 years ago, I saw a rather undistiguished Diana sell there for over $2,000. No, it didn't formerly belong to Ansel Adams. Nothing I see on ebay surprises me much anymore.
chippy
foo was here
The prevailing point that comes through is nobody knows what was going through the bidders mind-for that matter there must of been at least two bidders to drive the price up. Unless there is someone in the heart of ebay that can tell sellers what the bidders have entered, or someway to hack the system and know what a bidders highest amount entered is!! i'm not seriously suggesting it, its just my imagination working--ya kinda have to have a wierd imagation to be a photography nut dont ya! not unlike the thought of traveling back in time to buy property on the coast and returning to this time and owning the east coast of Oz haha!
seriously though i do remember when i first became interested in the bessas and voitlanders i did used to confuse the helomar with the heliar and nearly bid on one myself a few years back (because one usualy knows of heliar but not the helomar so much and presumes its another spelling or something!), but I remember something looked odd so i read up on them of course. nowdays i'm completley familiar with them it would seem stupid to confuse them.
the same for the possibility of someone having a heliar lens already. that would include me!!!! i won at ebay a bessa RF with scopar and mask in what looked like top-fantastic nick for a very good/cheap price (and as the bard would say there in lie the crux) because i never did receive it!!!after weeks/months of no camera and contact from seller, the seller from solvakia or somewhere that sells heaps of cameras said to me that he gave it to someone else by mistake and he could not get it back. he offered me a replacement camera with heliar but after seeing the pics of it i refused outright and asked for a refund. however he sent it anyway....
it was/is a piece of disgusting junk, front door wont close, back not much better, yellow filter chipped, the whole thing is bent & bloody crooked with bits broken off it. you name it, its buggered, all except the lens! if it wasnt for the fact that I am now (hopefully not permantly) traumatised by the mere sight of a bessa RF i would consider paying good money for a minty B RF with helomar!!!
seriously though i do remember when i first became interested in the bessas and voitlanders i did used to confuse the helomar with the heliar and nearly bid on one myself a few years back (because one usualy knows of heliar but not the helomar so much and presumes its another spelling or something!), but I remember something looked odd so i read up on them of course. nowdays i'm completley familiar with them it would seem stupid to confuse them.
the same for the possibility of someone having a heliar lens already. that would include me!!!! i won at ebay a bessa RF with scopar and mask in what looked like top-fantastic nick for a very good/cheap price (and as the bard would say there in lie the crux) because i never did receive it!!!after weeks/months of no camera and contact from seller, the seller from solvakia or somewhere that sells heaps of cameras said to me that he gave it to someone else by mistake and he could not get it back. he offered me a replacement camera with heliar but after seeing the pics of it i refused outright and asked for a refund. however he sent it anyway....
it was/is a piece of disgusting junk, front door wont close, back not much better, yellow filter chipped, the whole thing is bent & bloody crooked with bits broken off it. you name it, its buggered, all except the lens! if it wasnt for the fact that I am now (hopefully not permantly) traumatised by the mere sight of a bessa RF i would consider paying good money for a minty B RF with helomar!!!