Those Brooklyn Camera Dealers - Some News

Its telling me I need to register with NYTimes.com in order to access the article. Can you copy and paste it?
 
For sites like this that require free registration, you should try www.bugmenot.com.

You can type in the name of a site (e.g., www.nytimes.com) and the site will give you a list of "throw away" logins that others have provided and which you can use while avoiding registering your own information.

I used it just now so that I could read the article mentioned above.

Cheers,
Rory
 
kyle said:
Its telling me I need to register with NYTimes.com in order to access the article. Can you copy and paste it?

Yes please. I can't read anything other than the taster for this. It demands I upgrade to NYT Select, which isn't possible unless I have subscribed home delivery - being in the UK that isn't gonna happen.

Volunteers to cut & paste most welcome.
 
TimF said:
Yes please. I can't read anything other than the taster for this. It demands I upgrade to NYT Select, which isn't possible unless I have subscribed home delivery - being in the UK that isn't gonna happen.

Volunteers to cut & paste most welcome.

Did you try quokka's suggestion? Go to www.bugmenot.com and you can get a login to read the article. It worked for me.
 
In a Flash, Camera Dealers Feel the Web's Wrath

By MICHAEL BRICK

Published: January 11, 2006


The last best address leads to a metallic gray warehouse by the waterfront in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. Trash haulers go about and there is a dull buzzing sound in the hallway. Graffiti gives information that white people are devils.

Envelopes marked Price Rite Photo are stacked by a door. No one has picked up the mail since the business quit the premises two months ago, said Robert Colon, the handyman. Telephone calls to the company go unreturned.

The proprietors of Price Rite are a subject of complaints to the state attorney general, the city Department of Consumer Affairs, the county district attorney and the Better Business Bureau. The company is only one of several online camera dealers in Brooklyn that have gained nationwide notoriety for hard sales tactics and bait-and-switch advertising, but when customers suddenly began rallying against the dealers, Price Rite was the center of attention.

What began late in November with a disputed order for a Canon EOS has led to prank calls and attempts to cripple Web sites, police reports of death threats, intervention by global Internet companies, a new city investigation and, all the while, spirited coverage by technology news Web sites.

The market for digital camera gear, it turns out, happens to have a lot of overlap with the technology-minded, Web-logging set, whose vengeance is served without much pause. "So many people have had the same problem before," said Danny Start, a computer systems analyst in Birmingham, England, who made prank calls to Price Rite and posted recorded conversations on the Internet late last year. "This time, we all heard about it and thought we'd do something about it."

Many of the camera retailers documented in consumer complaints operate in the gray market, a broad term describing generally legal practices such as importing products packaged for sale outside the United States. Whether for its immigrant population or its ports, Brooklyn has gained a reputation as a center of the gray market for cameras, especially since an investigation by PC World magazine in 2003 focused on Brooklyn dealers.

The companies promote products on their Web sites and submit offers to online services like Yahoo! Shopping, which searches prices on more than 100 million products from more than 100,000 merchants, according to Yahoo!

Complaints submitted to investigative agencies describe tactics like promising low prices but canceling orders or making threats when customers decline to add batteries and other accessories to their purchases.

"It is a perennial problem for us, particularly in New York, not necessarily for New York customers but for customers around the country," said Anthony Barbera, manager of the Information and Investigations Department of the Better Business Bureau of New York. "It is kind of a gray area, and we don't have enforcement power."

Keeping track of the companies has been a challenge, Mr. Barbera said, because they shift identities, shedding each Web site as it gains a bad reputation.

Without evidence of outright fraud, law enforcement agencies have largely declined to pursue criminal charges. This year, the state attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, mediated four complaints against Price Rite and referred two to the city Department of Consumer Affairs.

"It's just not something we have the resources to pursue, in terms of you need a pattern and you need a number of complaints and a similarity in the pattern in order to put an action together," said Brad Maione, a spokesman for Mr. Spitzer.

Other complaints were referred to the Brooklyn district attorney, Charles J. Hynes, Mr. Maione said. A spokesman for Mr. Hynes said his office refers them to the attorney general and Consumer Affairs.

That department's jurisdiction includes businesses operating within the five boroughs or serving city consumers from elsewhere.

Because the online camera dealers use warehouse spaces in Brooklyn but not storefronts, policies for handling complaints from Internet customers outside the city are still evolving.

After what happened last month, though, "we will be investigating," said Dina Improta, a spokeswoman for the department.

Outside legal channels, camera enthusiasts have been building a case against Brooklyn dealers for years. A great hero of the movement is Don Wiss, 56, a self-described "Woodstock baby" who wears frameless glasses and denim shirts.

From his home in Park Slope, Mr. Wiss promotes gluten-free eating and car-free transportation. For fun, he tracks addresses associated with online camera dealers, rides his Dutch Batavus bicycle (with fenders, chain casing and adjustable handlebars) to those addresses, takes photographs and posts the images on his Web site.

"I'm trying to be neutral," Mr. Wiss said, "just publicize it so people can make their own decision."

His Web page is a gallery of shuttered warehouses, mailbox stores and apartment buildings. The address, at donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/, is known among serious camera consumers, but its fame grew when it was mentioned in an online rant by Thomas Hawk of Piedmont, Wash.

On Nov. 29, Mr. Hawk posted a 2,333-word complaint about Price Rite Photo on his Web site, describing hard sales tactics and threats. By 2 a.m. the next day, this dispute over a $3,000 camera was an enormously popular topic of discussion online, casting Mr. Hawk in the timeless role of the outraged underdog.

Internet gunslingers tend to shoot first and ask lots of questions while shooting, so the attacks on Price Rite came quickly and with much discussion. Some bragged of tying up the company's phone lines, others of flooding its Web site with excess traffic. It is unclear whether that tactic worked.

"The world of blogs is such an echo chamber that, a few places pick it up, you literally are generating tons of traffic," said Lee Holmes, 28, who posted similar complaints on his own site from his home near Seattle.

There were conscientious objectors, too. One discussion participant anonymously wrote, "This is vigilante justice; there are proper channels to deal with this."

After reading Mr. Hawk's complaints, Yahoo! Shopping blocked Price Rite from its service, according to Sabrina Crider, a spokeswoman for the company. Mr. Hawk quickly declared victory, and online discussion forums with names like Digg filed the story under headlines like "Digg Users Take Revenge at Bad Online Store."

But the episode was not complete for Mr. Wiss, whose photographs of Brooklyn buildings had been mentioned in Mr. Hawk's rant under the headline "Update #20."

On Dec. 14, Mr. Wiss said, he received several calls accusing him of putting stores out of business and threatening him with death. He said the threats were all bluster, but he reported the calls to the police and adamantly refused to allow photographs of his face for this article. He said he hopes to trace the calls if they continue.

At the warehouse in Sunset Park, Mr. Colon, the handyman, had his own ideas about the whereabouts of Price Rite and its proprietor.

"He owes me money," Mr. Colon said, explaining that he was never paid for moving an air-conditioner. "That's why he doesn't come here to pick up the mail."
 
Thank you, Brett.

I read that article over a week ago. Too bad the thread is lumping Brooklyn camera dealers into one group. But the article does talk about a big problem; the saying says something about a womyn scorned... these guys can get serious.
 
Thanks Brett for that.

Kyle - I was already signed up to NYT, but for some reason still got a demand to upgrade. Going back today (having logged out yesterday in order to use one of bugmenot's log-ins with the same result) I was able to read the whole bit. Weird! 😕
 
Once you get past Adorama, B&H, and photo Village, be very careful. There are a great many New York metropolitan camera dealers that are shady at best. If you have any doubts, check other Leica forums searching the site by the name of the dealer you are about to buy from..
 
Pretty much all the ones that advertize in Popular Photography are scam artists which is ironic as they go on about how they supposedly check them out. There are only a few exceptions like B&H, Adorama, etc. and they happen to be in Manhattan. If they are located in Brooklyn that should immediately raise a red flag which I know isn't fair to the few legit shops but the fact remains that 90% of them are bogus. That's just where these scumbags happened to set up shop many years ago. Most are friends or relatives so it's probably not as big a group as it appears but you have the same people owning several shops. You need to do a lot of research before ordering.
 
It had been a while since I posted this thread and I was surprised to see it pop back up.

I was also surprised to see that folks coulldn't go right to the article but were asked to subscribe or upgrade to Times Select.

I now realize that if you are not a Times Select subscriber (I am not) you cannot open the article AFTER the day of publication (i.e. once it has gone into "archives"). So I guess "old news" is expensive news.

Thanks to Brett for printing it here - sorry if I caused some confusion -.
 
I'd stick with B&H and Adorama, Sadly I've had a few bad experiences with photo village and would never go back or recomend others go there anymore.
 
Brooklyn Camera Exchaneis a legitimate store. They have been around for years and are not in Brooklyn! I remember Arnie from working at Olden's in NYC, when I worked at Camera Barn. My sister lived in Rockville Center for many years and Brooklyn Camera was near the train station. The others, who are actually in Brooklyn, I would be very wary of.
 
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Brooklyn Camera

Brooklyn Camera

Brooklyn Camera is located in Rockville Centre, Long Island NY.

It's the only used camera dealer in my area that still has a storefront.
It does appear they do mostly mail order, including overseas.
I go in there for filters, caps and other odds & ends mostly.

Descriptions and conditions on the website seem fairly accurate.
If you can get a good price from Arnie, go ahead and buy...

Good luck,
Chris
 
I used to see Arnie Duren w/Brooklyn Camera fairly regularly at camera shows here
in FL. But over time the shows have lost a lot of their appeal and their following, so
many of the former regulars don't bother. I've dealt directly with Arnie at some of the shows, and he's a likeable, straight-up guy. The last time I saw him was at a show in Titusville in early '99, and he was still goin' strong--I hope he still is.

Fred
 
Kind of sad that a legit dealer now gets "smeared" because of the "Brooklyn" name.

BTW: it's interesting that they are now located in Rockville Centre. Which is, BTW, very near Lynbrook.

Can you figure out how "Lynbrook" got it's name?

[Clue: in the 1920's a real estate developer started building homes out on the south shore of Long Island that had a railroad that connected to the Atlantic Avenue Terminal.]

😉
 
On a positive note, I recently purchased a Leica from Adorama and it arrived without a take-up spool. An email and follow-up telephone call had a new take-up spool in my hands within a few days. It's the kind with the pop-up center piece making it easy to remove. I'm pleased with their customer service on that matter.

Walker
 
copake_ham said:
Kind of sad that a legit dealer now gets "smeared" because of the "Brooklyn" name.

Hey <vbfg> a lot of very good things come out of Brooklyn! 🙂 And I'm not just talkin about Junior's cheesecake and Nathan's fries! 🙂

Seriously, there are scummy dealers everywhere.

Back years ago when I was shopping for my first Pentax, I looked around everywhere, and the most sleazoid dealers I remember were in Manhattan, and it seems like the closer you got to Times Square, the more skummy they became. 🙁

The worst I remember was one dealer who was selling a Spotmatic body with this super cheap normal lens and swore it was the same thing as a Takumar. Yeah, right! And then this other guy who had a nice Spotmatic kit in the window on special, he had the Spotmatic with a 35 and 135 Takumar all on display. Well anyway, when I went in and got the sales pitch it turned out that the 35 and 135 were Lentar (that was the first I ever heard of them) and not Takumar, the Takumar set was "Extra". 🙁 Hey, I was young and naive but not *that* naive! 🙂
 
dmr said:
Hey <vbfg> a lot of very good things come out of Brooklyn! 🙂 And I'm not just talkin about Junior's cheesecake and Nathan's fries! 🙂

Seriously, there are scummy dealers everywhere.

Back years ago when I was shopping for my first Pentax, I looked around everywhere, and the most sleazoid dealers I remember were in Manhattan, and it seems like the closer you got to Times Square, the more skummy they became. 🙁

The worst I remember was one dealer who was selling a Spotmatic body with this super cheap normal lens and swore it was the same thing as a Takumar. Yeah, right! And then this other guy who had a nice Spotmatic kit in the window on special, he had the Spotmatic with a 35 and 135 Takumar all on display. Well anyway, when I went in and got the sales pitch it turned out that the 35 and 135 were Lentar (that was the first I ever heard of them) and not Takumar, the Takumar set was "Extra". 🙁 Hey, I was young and naive but not *that* naive! 🙂

Hey dmr,

I was defending Brooklyn - not "dissin' " it!

I was born in Brooklyn - for real.

I live in NYC.

Now, if you bought a camera in midtown Manhattan at one of the "Going out of Business" stores - SHAME ON YOU! 😉

BTW: do you wanna buy some "tube socks"? I got some "hot ones" here. 6 pair for a buck - they're "hot" but hey, no questions asked..... 😀
 
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