Thoughts on a 50 for my Contax II....

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physiognomy

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While trying to be patient waiting for the arrival of my Contax II I have been thinking a lot about what 50 I should pair with it when it gets here... Recently Kievs have returned as my main 'go to' cameras & now that I've finally succumbed to the Contax call I am looking at Sonnars. I probably won't be able to afford more than one 'good' 50, so I'm trying not to make any hasty moves without thinking it through...

I have good J-8s of different vintages, so I felt done in the 50/2 department until I rediscovered this thread (click) & saw Max's beautiful Kiev 2a with collapsible sonnar 50/2. To start with I didn't know that they came coated & I love the idea of having something a little more compact. I assume that a true CZ sonnar will be better than a run of the mill J-8, but I was wondering what people's opinions were about the collapsible sonnar in terms of an 'upgrade' from a decent performing J-8? My initial overriding thought was that if I was going to put up the $$ for a Sonnar that it might as well be the f1.5, but now I'm not so sure... Any thoughts?

Peter
 
"I assume that a true CZ sonnar will be better than a run of the mill J-8"
It largely depends how abused your "true CZ" is, versus that J-8.
See a previous thread of mine as well as the thread of Raid about current 50mm lenses test.
I'd say give the J-8 a try.

Of course, if you need the collapsible size, there's no J-8-like option.
 
I think Pherdi is on the right track, as are your thoughts. If you have good ones, then you have 50/2 covered with the J8. Save and shop for a good deal and jump on a 1.5 Sonnar when you see one, but don't rush into it.

Contax mount Sonnars are pretty compact, you really don't save too much space with a collapsible build.
 
Maybe a little more detail: I was referring only to the optics. The construction of a true CZ sonnar is quite better than the J-8, so, if that matters to you a lot, the choice is clear. However contax mount J-8 lenses (at least some) have click stops on the aperture that can be handy. Sonnars don't.
 
Thanks for the input guys... I guess I'm trying to justify another 50mm in Contax mount when I have J-8s & a Helios-103. I nearly won a J-3 for a decent price on ebay, so I'm considering that option as well...

Peter
 
The collapsible Sonnar f/2 is a bitch to use. The one I'm currently using won't lock in extended position, and due to shape you can't focus using the barrel. BUT! The results are great, and I'm currently using it wide-open for the most part. ((again shameless advertisment for my blog, but it's easier than linking all the images seperately)).

I may change my mind on my opinion of it's ease of use once I get the other Sonnar through Screwy's auction. It may fix in extended position, and it may feel nicer to use.

I'm actually contemplating putting the Jupiter-8 on the Contax-II, simply because the lens is solid. It won't collapse, I can focus with the barrel as well as the wheel, and it's coated and in excellent condition.

Only thing is, when you can't focus with the barrel, everything become a little more difficult, last night i missed some great shots of Mr Porter ((drunk)) because he was moving/swaying too fast to focus at f/2
 
A lot of the early collapsible 50/2 CZ Sonnars from the 1930s are uncoated, so that's another tradeoff against the J-8. Personally I would just go with the Helios-103 you already have.

Philipp
 
Given the glass you already have, I would focus on getting an 1.5/50, either a Sonnar or a J-3. I've got a J-3, it has some dust inside and a bit of dirt on one surface but still projects very good image wide open.. gotta clean it eventually and see what it can do then :)
 
phys, given the lenses that you already have, in your place I would probably look for a J-3 or a Zeiss 50/1.5, but only if you really need the extra speed. In my experience, I do not see much difference in performance between the 50/2 and 50/1.5 lenses made by Zeiss. I expect the same situation applies to the Jupiters.
 
FYI, on all the collapsible lenses for the Contax RF, both Sonnar & Tessar, it's very easy to adjust the little metal flanges that hold the lens in place when extended so that they stay extended.

Ash said:
The collapsible Sonnar f/2 is a bitch to use. The one I'm currently using won't lock in extended position, and due to shape you can't focus using the barrel. BUT! The results are great, and I'm currently using it wide-open for the most part. ((again shameless advertisment for my blog, but it's easier than linking all the images seperately)).

I may change my mind on my opinion of it's ease of use once I get the other Sonnar through Screwy's auction. It may fix in extended position, and it may feel nicer to use.

I'm actually contemplating putting the Jupiter-8 on the Contax-II, simply because the lens is solid. It won't collapse, I can focus with the barrel as well as the wheel, and it's coated and in excellent condition.

Only thing is, when you can't focus with the barrel, everything become a little more difficult, last night i missed some great shots of Mr Porter ((drunk)) because he was moving/swaying too fast to focus at f/2
Click to expand...
 
Actually, practically all of the collapsible 50/2 Sonnars available on the market are uncoated, & neither branch of the Zeiss family produced collapsible Sonnars after WWII (although Jena did continue w/a version of the collapsible Tessar). Thus, any genuine "T" coated collapsible 50/2 Sonnar is a rarity as they were made in small quantities between 1938 & 1945. There were quite a few regular uncoated Sonnars that were coated in the aftermarket by small optical shops (I have 1 of those w/bright blue coating), but I don't think they will categorically outperform a properly-constructed Jupiter. I would 2nd Rover's recommendation of waiting for a good post-WWII Zeiss-Opton or Carl Zeiss 50/1.5 Sonnar (or the much rarer wartime Carl Zeiss Jena version).

rxmd said:
A lot of the early collapsible 50/2 CZ Sonnars from the 1930s are uncoated, so that's another tradeoff against the J-8. Personally I would just go with the Helios-103 you already have.

Philipp
Click to expand...
 
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Ash

Your Sonnar locking lugs have a problem but I'd be cautious about recommend you bend them myself. The sonnar should 'wedge' lock like your FSU LTM, it should focus easily after proper adjustment.

Peter

Getting a collapsable Zeiss pre war f2 or f1.5, coated, in resonable optical condition will be difficult and need patience, and might need >> $/£.

A J8 or J8M or J3 should be indishinguishable in performance from the Zeiss unless you use micro film and a tripod, - if you get a good one. The helios I've used is good (better) but flares too much, it (they) needs more internal black paint, it is also bigger in the gadget bag.

Noel
 
Xmas said:
Ash

Your Sonnar locking lugs have a problem but I'd be cautious about recommend you bend them myself. The sonnar should 'wedge' lock like your FSU LTM, it should focus easily after proper adjustment.

Noel
Click to expand...

A Contax expert named Nicolas Douez used to have a web page where he showed which parts on the bottom of the lens mount to bend to correct the non-locking problem with the collapsible lenses. I adjusted my collapsible 50/2 using his directions, and it worked great. I will post the link if I can locate it. Anyway, you don't have to bend the spring clips very much at all, and do so gingerly because you could probably snap them off you applied too much pressure
 
DEFINITELY don't want to snap the clips!! I understand it can be corrected, but I'm not too keen on messing it up really :)
 
Thanks again for all the advice... I think you have helped me decide that it really is the f1.5 that I'm missing from my line up & I will focus on finding one. I hear Noel though about needing to save my pennies as the good ones I've seen lately went for way more than I paid for the Contax II. I have seen them at more reasonable prices, but I don't want to run the risk of a lottery 'attic find'.

Mark, is this (click) the web site you were talking about? I'll have to take a look... Thanks for the tip!

Peter

ps It snowed here tuesday & today is what I call a 'Colorado Day'... plenty of pretty snow that is melting fast because the sun is shining down. I have my Kiev 2a w/ Helios-103 with me in the lab, so I'm going to go for a walk around campus & see if I can find some nice shots. I love it during break when there isn't hordes of students around!
 
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no, I have seen this one, but it is not the one that I was thinking of. Nice page, though. I recall a different page, because I had it bookmarked for a while, and when I went to revisit the page, it had disappeared. I am almost positive that it was Nicolas Douez.
 
I remember Nicolas's post, too, as that's what taught me how to do the tab-bending procedure. It's not hard to do, or describe, but I don't have a collapsible Sonnar or Tessar with me @ the moment.

dexdog said:
no, I have seen this one, but it is not the one that I was thinking of. Nice page, though. I recall a different page, because I had it bookmarked for a while, and when I went to revisit the page, it had disappeared. I am almost positive that it was Nicolas Douez.
Click to expand...
 
Don't count out the uncoated 50/2 collapsible Sonnar. It's a fine lens in its own right & as flare-resistant as uncoated lenses get (due to the Sonnar design's small # of elements). They're also relatively inexpensive & plentiful! ;)

I've found uncoated lenses to have their own charms, & not just for B&W (as many people seem to think). I especially like the way uncoated lenses work w/modern highly saturated or high contrast color films like Fuji Velvia or Kodak Gold 100.

physiognomy said:
Thanks again for all the advice... I think you have helped me decide that it really is the f1.5 that I'm missing from my line up & I will focus on finding one. I hear Noel though about needing to save my pennies as the good ones I've seen lately went for way more than I paid for the Contax II. I have seen them at more reasonable prices, but I don't want to run the risk of a lottery 'attic find'.
Click to expand...
 
OK, I have a collapsible Sonnar w/me today. Here's my shot @ describing the tightening process:

(1) Remove lens from camera.

(2) Collapse the lens.

(3) Look @ the rear of the lens & you should see evenly spaced (@ 120 degree intervals) around the edge of the metal ring surrounding the rear element 3 sets of tabs, roughly shaped like sawblade teeth. The part you want to bend is the elongated part that's formed by the diagonal slot cut into the metal, not the little triangular "tooth" that's right next to it.

(4) With some needle-nose pliers or your fingers gently & slightly bend the tip of the elongated part out towards the rear of the lens (i.e., towards the film plane if the lens were mounted). And by slightly, I mean slightly, like the thickness of 1 or 2 sheets of paper.

(5) Remount the lens on your camera & then extend & twist to check the fit. If it's still loose, then repeat w/another slight bend.

furcafe said:
I remember Nicolas's post, too, as that's what taught me how to do the tab-bending procedure. It's not hard to do, or describe, but I don't have a collapsible Sonnar or Tessar with me @ the moment.
Click to expand...
 
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