Thoughts - The Future of the M-Line

Bully

Bully

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Hello,

when the new M8 will be presented on the photokina in September what will happen to the M7 and the MP?

Possible answers:

I could imagine that the M8 will replace the M7

The MP could stay for a long time to be the all-mechanical equivalent of the all-automatic M8

What are your thoughts?

Greetings
Bully
 
IMO it would be more than surprising, even inconceivable, that they would discontinue the film line of camera's. Why should they? It is a fully developed product, no investment in R&D, with a solid base of regular customers. There may be a waiting list for a while, as production facilities may have to be diverted to the M8 temporarily. Maybe- just maybe, in the future it might be limited, imho, to the a-la-carte line.
 
jaapv said:
IMO it would be more than surprising, even inconceivable, that they would discontinue the film line of camera's. Why should they? It is a fully developed product, no investment in R&D, with a solid base of regular customers. There may be a waiting list for a while, as production facilities may have to be diverted to the M8 temporarily. Maybe- just maybe, in the future it might be limited, imho, to the a-la-carte line.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct: after the M8 is caught up with deliveries (or present M7/MP inventory is depleted) it will be M7MP a la carte only.
 
I don't think they would limit themselves to the à-la-carte line of film cameras - partly because it is part of Leica's business model at the moment to turn out limited edition series that will be bought over and over again by collectors.

Philipp
 
If Leica kills the M7 and MP, they will be treading into unkown territory away from what I call the camera business and into really high end consumer electronics with a short shelf life.

I hope they keep the MP because I want to buy one at some point.

Bill
 
Leica have said they will continue to produce the film cameras for as long as there's demand. I think it's neat to run the three cameras in parallel - film/mechanical, film/electronic and digital, all with compatible lenses and (probably) some accessories.

I also believe the M8 will be built in Solms, though I would be surprised if Leica were getting into the business of stuffing circuit boards. It's common to contract out this work to specialists who have the expensive build and test equipment and have enough work to keep it busy all the time.

I expect that the M8 electronics will come in as a small series of completed and tested assemblies. If it's anything like the M7, it will be implemented on a flex print with some sections separated by press-together connectors so that sections prone to damage from exterior influences can be replaced individually. On the M7, for example, the circuitry for firing the flash is separate from the main electronics to allow servicing when someone's flash has cooked the electronics.

What's also likely is that the electronics can be aligned using a test rig attached to the camera with all settings maintained in flash memory which means the camera can be aligned without taking it apart and to a consistent standard.
 
Mark Norton said:
Leica have said they will continue to produce the film cameras for as long as there's demand.
Click to expand...

From the Leica dealers I've spoken with in my travels (I can't seem to pass a camera store without stopping in for a look and a chat) it appears there is basically no demand. At least seven Leica dealers told me they had not sold one new body in the last year, including ala cart. They figure that whatever few new sales are probably going to the NYC mail-order stores so people can avoid paying local sales tax ($280 on a $3500 body in an 8% state). A couple stores had their Leica franchises pulled because they refused to stock up.

I recall back when the MP came out, Leica said the M6TTL would remain in the catalog. It did, for a couple of months, until their inventory fell below a set point. I figure that's what will happen to the M7 and MP, though there wasn't the ala cart program back then. Perhaps Leica will keep the machinery oiled and turn out a film body on demand for a hefty price. Why shouldn't they?
 
Ben Z said:
I recall back when the MP came out, Leica said the M6TTL would remain in the catalog. It did, for a couple of months, until their inventory fell below a set point. I figure that's what will happen to the M7 and MPQUOTE]

There is a slight difference here- The M7 with the auto turned off was not much different from the M6TTL. There is a slight basic difference between the M7 and the M8.:p
Click to expand...
 
Let's face it, film is dying on its feet in terms of new sales. Sure, existing Leica users will continue to use film but many will also look to off-load their film cameras to pay for an M8. People looking to buy an M7 or MP now have increased supply as an alternative to buying new which is bound to impact new film M sales and depress secondhand values.

From the point of view of saving Leica commercially, the M8 cannot come a moment too soon. Sport Optics is doing well, compact digital cameras causes problems because they keep running out of cameras made in a batch while there's still a residual demand, and the last statistics I saw said R sales were a third of M sales. The DMR will have improved things a bit but Leica desparately needs the M8 with lens/accessory drag-along to bolster their sales. And, if the R is to have a chance of surviving as a system, they need a lower cost dedicated digital body.

BTW, jaapv, how do you like your 24mm? One report in a French magazine suggested the viewfinder would support it natively, so that the pairs of frames would be 28/90, 24/35, 50/75 which leaves the 21 and 135 at each end of the focal length range out in the cold.
 
When I saw this thread I couldn't help but think of John Lydon singing
"There's no future, no future,
No future for you"

:angel:

William
 
I think it shouldn't be that cold outside, it's Summer for crying out loud, why is it barely 68 degrees (about 20 in world degrees)?
 
I think the M7 and MP will continue for the same reason that LF cameras continue; there will alway be some demand. If an M8 user wants to do serious projection stuff for whatever reason (meetings, academic lectures, etc.) he/she will need to shoot some chrome, and it would be cheaper to buy a new M7 to go with the M8 lenses and accessories, than to buy a whole new system in another brand. Leica only needs to sell 2,000 cameras a year to have roughly a $6,000,000 business. In the world of real small businesses, that's a decent sum, and would support a small shop of specialists. It would, of course, be nothing in the world of big business.

JC
 
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