bmattock
Veteran
Phantomas
Well-known
To be honest the photo on the top of the page taken with G11 looks like c**p. I wouldn't call it "quality" and wouldn't want to see it published in pro media, it's just not up to par.
I used to shoot a lot of concerts. A lot. All for my hobby and had a couple pulished after some media would approach me. I almost always shot with a DSLR. Not a single time have a dealt with photo-pass, press-pass, camera restrictions, etc. But i'm aware of the situation and that makes me realise that we might be lucky in Holland, venues seem to be liberal about the cameras. I've only heard once of an instance where friends wasn't allowed to bring a camera in. I've also been to one or two shows that had huge "no photography" signs and yet the fron row would be full of amatures with their DSLRs and kit lenses with the band happily smiling at them.
That being said, I don't usually go to huge MTV-star concerts. Still, from what I hear from people abroad it seems that we've got it very easy here.
I used to shoot a lot of concerts. A lot. All for my hobby and had a couple pulished after some media would approach me. I almost always shot with a DSLR. Not a single time have a dealt with photo-pass, press-pass, camera restrictions, etc. But i'm aware of the situation and that makes me realise that we might be lucky in Holland, venues seem to be liberal about the cameras. I've only heard once of an instance where friends wasn't allowed to bring a camera in. I've also been to one or two shows that had huge "no photography" signs and yet the fron row would be full of amatures with their DSLRs and kit lenses with the band happily smiling at them.
That being said, I don't usually go to huge MTV-star concerts. Still, from what I hear from people abroad it seems that we've got it very easy here.
lightshot
Established
I've seen a few amateur photos and videos taken at concerts that looked decent, but most aren't that great.
I understand why some venues and groups restrict photos, but it's a little like the little boy with his finger in the dike - you can't stem the tide of small portable pns cameras with decent ISO levels and lenses carried by amateurs- so why continue to restrict the pros?
As an aside, the only concert I would have liked to have photographed was the Dead, but unfortunately I always enjoyed the atmosphere of the shows a bit too much to be able to take any photos.
I understand why some venues and groups restrict photos, but it's a little like the little boy with his finger in the dike - you can't stem the tide of small portable pns cameras with decent ISO levels and lenses carried by amateurs- so why continue to restrict the pros?
As an aside, the only concert I would have liked to have photographed was the Dead, but unfortunately I always enjoyed the atmosphere of the shows a bit too much to be able to take any photos.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Ahh!....things have certainly changed - since we crouched in front of Bill Haley's Comets with our Speed Graphics!
Dave.
Dave.
furcafe
Veteran
The 3-song rule has always been a bunch of arbitrary b.s. that keeps you from capturing the best moments of a show. Legend has it that it was invented by Geddy Lee of Rush, who disliked having photogs using flash throughout shows (see the February 17, 2008 entry in Ross Halfin's blog: http://www.rosshalfin.com/diary/february-2008/diary-february-2008.php). Another reason for me to dislike Rush, other than that their music brings back bad memories of high school.
Phantomas
Well-known
Well, flash during shows IS annoying. Even i'm annoyed in the audience, I can imagine the band.
What I've heard about the "3 songs rule" is that during the beginning of the set the band is still "fresh" and after three songs they start to get sweaty, hence " they prefer to be photographed at the start of the show". Whatever, that's a silly rule, if I was a musician I'd prefer sweaty photos of me, to show some energy and attract groupies. Aren't chicks supposed to like sweaty men? Dirty, sweaty and hairy.
What I've heard about the "3 songs rule" is that during the beginning of the set the band is still "fresh" and after three songs they start to get sweaty, hence " they prefer to be photographed at the start of the show". Whatever, that's a silly rule, if I was a musician I'd prefer sweaty photos of me, to show some energy and attract groupies. Aren't chicks supposed to like sweaty men?
Dirty, sweaty and hairy.
bob338
Well-known
i used to be a mid level tour manager.
three songs and you're out has a couple of reasons for being the standard. most pro photographers are whisked away after the first three because most artists don't want to be seen in Rolling Stone with their make up running down their faces and covered in sweat. this wasn't a big deal for fans with cameras because their pictures weren't published in world wide magazines, but that's different now. the band i worked for never forced the issue of restricting fans' cameras.
another reason is that the security needs the trench to keep the crowd surfers back. you don't want to be the guy with a camera held against your face when some 100 pound idiot gets launched into the air and lands on your unaware head.
another reason is that it's very distracting to have some jerk with a telephoto waving at you trying to get 'the shot' while you're trying to put on a show for the people who paid to be there. this happens a lot more than you think.
one last reason is that a lot of the photographers weren't even pro photographers at all. they were fans that somehow talked their way into a photo pass and a free ticket and wanted to keep their first row skybox. that ain't fair to the folks who stood in the cold to be first in and up against the barricade.
the flash rule is pretty common because from the stage you're looking into darkness or stagelights from above and those powerful flashes absolutely BLIND you. i was the guy usually standing on the side of the stage by the monitor board, and even from there it was blinding. it's also annoying to be in the crowd and see the flashes going off every 30 seconds.
i'm sure others have more to add, but these are the reasons from the inside.
bob
three songs and you're out has a couple of reasons for being the standard. most pro photographers are whisked away after the first three because most artists don't want to be seen in Rolling Stone with their make up running down their faces and covered in sweat. this wasn't a big deal for fans with cameras because their pictures weren't published in world wide magazines, but that's different now. the band i worked for never forced the issue of restricting fans' cameras.
another reason is that the security needs the trench to keep the crowd surfers back. you don't want to be the guy with a camera held against your face when some 100 pound idiot gets launched into the air and lands on your unaware head.
another reason is that it's very distracting to have some jerk with a telephoto waving at you trying to get 'the shot' while you're trying to put on a show for the people who paid to be there. this happens a lot more than you think.
one last reason is that a lot of the photographers weren't even pro photographers at all. they were fans that somehow talked their way into a photo pass and a free ticket and wanted to keep their first row skybox. that ain't fair to the folks who stood in the cold to be first in and up against the barricade.
the flash rule is pretty common because from the stage you're looking into darkness or stagelights from above and those powerful flashes absolutely BLIND you. i was the guy usually standing on the side of the stage by the monitor board, and even from there it was blinding. it's also annoying to be in the crowd and see the flashes going off every 30 seconds.
i'm sure others have more to add, but these are the reasons from the inside.
bob
photogdave
Shops local
Both photos in the article are crap.
Phantomas
Well-known
Heh, my thoughts exactly. I think the article defends their point by saying that big pro cameras with press passes can also take crap pictures, so nothing to fear
cnphoto
Well-known
i used to shoot music for a lot of street press here in Sydney, back when I was shooting digital and doing freelance work. the 3 songs, no flash rule is very common but a lot of the time we got 2 songs or sometimes 1 song! depending on the artist...
shot a show a few weeks ago for the first time in about a year (a friend of mine has started up a music e-zine that i've been shooting the covers for and every now and then i'll be shooting a show if i can't get one of our other photographers to cover it),though this time with the M4-P.it was a very different experience, for sure.
shot a show a few weeks ago for the first time in about a year (a friend of mine has started up a music e-zine that i've been shooting the covers for and every now and then i'll be shooting a show if i can't get one of our other photographers to cover it),though this time with the M4-P.it was a very different experience, for sure.
Phantomas
Well-known
Similar experience, used to shoot with DSLR but I gave up shooting shows a few years years ago already. Gave up the DSLR since then as well and have since only shot with Bessa a couple of shows.
Different for sure.
Same band (Earth), shot with DSLR a few years ago:
Shot with Bessa a few years later:
Different for sure.
Same band (Earth), shot with DSLR a few years ago:
Shot with Bessa a few years later:
bob338
Well-known
Similar experience, used to shoot with DSLR but I gave up shooting shows a few years years ago already. Gave up the DSLR since then as well and have since only shot with Bessa a couple of shows.
Different for sure.
Same band (Earth), shot with DSLR a few years ago:
nice shot. great band with an interesting history. i still listen to Earth 2 once in a while..
bob
Phantomas
Well-known
Bob - thanks, great band indeed. Besides 2 (which is an epic record) I own and appreciate pretty much all their catalogue. Long history too, infuenced the likes of Nirvana and Melvins et al. Yet still as fresh as ever.
(sorry for hijacking the thread)
(sorry for hijacking the thread)
jpa66
Jan as in "Jan and Dean"
Ahh!....things have certainly changed - since we crouched in front of Bill Haley's Comets with our Speed Graphics!
Dave.
Gee...
What I wouldn't give to have seen Bill Haley in his prime. I was born 25 years too late...
CopperB
M3 Noob
If those photos in the article are pro quality, I'm the Queen of England. My love of photography began with a P&S trying to get a good photo of Sting in concert. So, although I shoot with dslr at concerts now I guess I'm one of those amateurs not popular with you pros. I've never used flash at a concert or club gig, never will.
Here in NA security is pretty strict about dslr/Pro cameras although it is not consistent. I've been told 3 or 4 to put my camera away. Funnily enough, at the Police's finale at MSG I stood in full view in the aisle and shot till the lights went out without a word from anyone. I've never understood the 3 song rule. A band isn't even warmed up yet. The best ops are later in the show. Fiction Plane once restricted press photos till almost the end of their gig when Joe was good and sweaty and warmed up. LOL
At least I have good enough judgement to know a bad concert photo when I see one and not mix up the quality of fans' photos with that of the pros.
Here in NA security is pretty strict about dslr/Pro cameras although it is not consistent. I've been told 3 or 4 to put my camera away. Funnily enough, at the Police's finale at MSG I stood in full view in the aisle and shot till the lights went out without a word from anyone. I've never understood the 3 song rule. A band isn't even warmed up yet. The best ops are later in the show. Fiction Plane once restricted press photos till almost the end of their gig when Joe was good and sweaty and warmed up. LOL
At least I have good enough judgement to know a bad concert photo when I see one and not mix up the quality of fans' photos with that of the pros.
photogdave
Shops local
My best concert shot of Sting. Canon G9:
Attachments
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Thank you. I agree.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
BTW "Three Songs and You're Gone" sounds like something uttered by the Human Resources depart at most companies today.
dmr
Registered Abuser
That's what I was thinking too! Although the second one does look, to me, anyway, much cleaner and better overall. The first one has blown-out highlights and the color is sucky. The second one is just kind of blaaaah, but it IS, in my not so humble opinion, quite distinguishable from the first, which looks more like a cam phone photo to me!
As I think more about this, the goons are obviously going to be on the lookout for huge honking DSLRs with flame-thrower zoom lenses. Said goons probably would not know a Leica from a Lomo, and a small rangefinder would most likely attract zero attention from them! (Getting close enough may be another thing.)
surfer dude
Well-known
Who would even WANT a photo of U2 anyway? Maybe when they had some credibility. They have now morphed into the control freaks who erected a NEW wall in Berlin during the celebrations of the 20th anniversary of tearing down the OLD wall so that fans couldn't see their (gasp) 20 minute concert.
And have you ever stood in front of a NIN concert at full bore? Lucky enough to survive AT ALL much less with a camera!
And as for the other bands mentioned - Prince, Kanye West and Bjork?? Come on, get serious!
And have you ever stood in front of a NIN concert at full bore? Lucky enough to survive AT ALL much less with a camera!
And as for the other bands mentioned - Prince, Kanye West and Bjork?? Come on, get serious!
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