Time marches on for the M8

[John Camp]

I thought Leica had waited too long, a month ago. I was dumbfounded that there weren't any official photos released at Photokina. If they hired a serious pro -- there must be at least one in Germany -- and got him to do ten sample shots under the best conditions, then they'd at least be controlling their own fate. As it is, they're leaving their fate up to whoever gets out there first with some images, and if that guy is a bad photographer who doesn't understand the camera, then, tough luck, Leica. You'll find out what happened to Kodak with their SLRn, where tone of the publicity was controlled by people who owned the camera for five minutes and didn't know how to use it.

Sorry for the length of this, but: take two scenarios.

1. Leica publishes sample photos by a respected pro of a range of subjects and a range of ISOs. They are, almost by definition, going to be very good, because conditions will be very controlled, and the pictures pre-selected (and they won't select bad ones.) At that point, when the first five-minute users show up with bad pictures, the general reaction will be, "Learn how to use the camera, dimwit."

2. Leica issues nothing, and the first pictures come out from users who have had the camera for five minutes and don't know what they are doing. The pictures are ugly, and they spread like a bad rash, as happened with the SLRn. Nobody can say, "Learn how to use the camera," because they have no good photos to compare with. So these are taken as sincere shots...and Leica gets hurt. The Kodak SLRn was actually a fairly decent camera, for studio work, and for general work after a couple of firmware upgrades. But it went right in the toilet because of uncontrolled publicity. It wasn't fair, it wasn't right, but most of all, it was stupid -- stupid on Kodak's part. I wouldn't want to see it happen to Leica.

JC

 

[Mark Norton]

JC, I agree with you. With the DMR, there were a handful of images put on the web-site which hinted - correctly - at the quality of the camera but as yet, nothing at all for the M8. There must be a method to their madness, but I sure don't know what it is.

It's interesting that there are - let's say - 2000 people ready tp spend nearly $10m on a product whose principal purpose has not been put to independent test. That's a leap of faith for you.

 

[jaapv]

I agree as well, Mark. But I notice you made that leap of faith - twice...

 

[georgl]

Every company shows pictures perfectly matched to the abilities of the camera while hiding all the small problems...
So what have we learned from those pictures from brochures...? Don't trust them, make your own!
I agree with you, they should have showed more pictures (also from the DMR) made with their products - but "show" never was Leica's strength - they we're always interested in the quality of the product, they absolutely focus all their power to it and not into the marketing campaign...
When you could choose: Perfectly photoshoped-pictures in brochures or in the net made by dozens of people spending millions (TV-spots...) on it or engineers who actually working on the camera?
Today I was speaking to a Leica-employee, he said that they nearly finalized the firmware and testing the camera down to -40°C. He was kind enough to let me shot some 640ASA-pictures with the new Tri - at 16mm and f4. The DNGs were opened in C1 (with M8-profile) and looked stunning - absolutely different than the picture on the display (which is - of course - always some kind of JPG, with the whole image process inside the camera). I don't think I have ever seen such an IQ with an extreme WA (16mm -> 21mm) by a digital camera (Alpa not included ;-).
He also told me that only every third CCD makes it into the camera, because the other two don't meet Leica-standards!?

They don't hide anything, they just don't want to give a false impression (like with the DMR).

 

[jaapv]

I am becoming suspect of just what all is wrong with the performance capability of the M8, when will an actual authentic photo ever be released for the buying public to see just what is going come forth from this camera. I'm awar of the quick shot from Photokina, and the momentary lapse of private agreements of Mr. Puts, but what , when , and where do we mere mortals ever have the privelege of seeing something officially sanctioned as a Leica M8 photo, using any lens, The media hipe has worn itself out and time for show and tell is becoming more a farce than a committment. The line of #5K buyers does not stretch out to infinity nor does patience. If Leica has issues that they cannot solve or resolve lets see what they are.

I'm a bit puzzled about this post 🙄 - the camera hasn't reached the customers yet - but even then Leica have published one article themselves - in Leica News with pretty convincing photographs from the M8😎 >I particularly like the one with the Landrover driving on the seabed< and one semi-official publication in LFI that has a number pages of M8 photographs in it. So how can you claim they don't publish photographs? Just because the photographs were on paper and not in cyberspace? 😕 😕 😕

 

[sreidvt]

The worries about there being some dark picture quality secret about the M8 are unfounded and perhaps some time next week a new article on the M8 will be published. <G>

Cheers,

Sean

 

[newyorkone]

The worries about there being some dark picture quality secret about the M8 are unfounded and perhaps some time next week a new article on the M8 will be published. <G>

Cheers,

Sean

Oh just tell us already 🙂 You've practically given it away already. Then again, be careful...it's like when people talk about good movies...

 

[sreidvt]

Oh just tell us already 🙂 You've practically given it away already. Then again, be careful...it's like when people talk about good movies...

Steve,

I'm going to leave my comment intentionally vague for now and will speak much more explicitly as soon as it's wise to do so.

Cheers,

Sean
__

Sean Reid
http://www.reidreviews.com

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

"Time marches on for the M8"

And time stands still for...?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

So I haven't seen anyone from Leica, or anyone in a position to know, use the words "tinkering" or "unstable". It would not be surprising at all if they were doing a "regression test" and an "acceptance test" so that they don't run into problems in the field after they ship.

It is this mentality (if you can call it that), the one of "I want my bottle NOW! If I don't see it NOW! it means the bottle is BAD BAD BAD!" that drives companies to put crap out in the market before thoroughly testing it, because to Mr. and Mrs. W@lM@rt Shopper it is more important to have a crappy product NOW than a thoroughly tested, quality-assured product when it's ready as much not to insult their consumers' intelligence.

Given the NOW! buyer's propensity to buy cheap, crappy, quickly-made products in bulk over the same lifespan of the quality-made one, it doesn't surprise me that there are only a handful companies (percentage-wise) that don't cater to the wildly-speculative, rumor-milling, x-compensating one.

I agree with you, Blakley, I'm sure they're more concerned about insuring they deliver rather than placate.

 

[Alec]

Maybe there are no images available because they are sooo good they will just BLOW YOUR MIND! Maybe they are so lifelike, testers have had problems seperating images from reality and have been induced into a catatonic state.

ROTFL! I do hope that does not happen to our friend Sean 😉

 

[Artt]

In order to clarify my willingness to step up to the plate, I have had an order in to my dealer since pre-photokina for my desired M8. I am now informed that coding for my old lenses, as well as a new 28 f2.8 Elmarit, will not be available from factory or stateside repair center until aftler November 10, 2006. I still remain hopeful but suspicious that there are issues not yet openely identified that would be of interest to comitted as well as prospective buyers.

 

[gogopix]

More and more from the members of the IHWA 😉

 

[Bromo33333]

I am becoming suspect of just what all is wrong with the performance capability of the M8, when will an actual authentic photo ever be released for the buying public to see just what is going come forth from this camera. I'm awar of the quick shot from Photokina, and the momentary lapse of private agreements of Mr. Puts, but what , when , and where do we mere mortals ever have the privelege of seeing something officially sanctioned as a Leica M8 photo, using any lens, The media hipe has worn itself out and time for show and tell is becoming more a farce than a committment. The line of #5K buyers does not stretch out to infinity nor does patience. If Leica has issues that they cannot solve or resolve lets see what they are.

Patience! Good things don't happen fast. You are jumping to conclusions based upon no evidence. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." 🙄

It seems that they are pretty smart in their release of the camera - stoking enough demand to get the early adopters, but not enough to create a bad customer experience.

And I seriously doubt Leica is going to do "open kimono" on this - even though they are unlikely to have any serious problems at this point - nothing good ever comes of it. Ever.

There will be a ton of photographs all over shortly - and people will be debating to the skies about how good it is compared to other brands (I suspect at least 1 person will claim that it is no better than something 1/10 of the price, too, just wait!). And expect at least 1 firmware upgrade in the next 3-6 months. Count on it.

I don't think there is anything to worry about right now - if you are of the fortunate few to get an M8, maybe YOU can tell US and post a lot of photos here, eh? 😉