To 1/2 stop detent or not to detent

[bobofish]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
I try to keep my posting hereabouts on the minimum, because I'm not in the rangefinder owner's club yet.

I do however have a question...do the newer Leica M's have 1/2 or 1/3 stop detents in the aperature or shutter speeds, or are they whole stops?
I was fondling an MP a couple of months ago when I thought I might have the money for one (alas...) and methinks I felt some halfstops in both the shutter and diaphragm, although I can't find any evidence of this in published info about the newer M's. (I don't mean the stepless auto shutter of the M7 in AE, but rather on the actual dials of the M6, M7 and MP)
I'm addicted to having intermediate stops on my Canon AF, and having no aperature detents whatsoever in my Mamiya C220, so I'm just curious if I'll have to ween myself away from that passion when I eventually step into the Leica club or not?
Cheers

 

[jaapv]

As a matter of fact they are continuous i.e. you can choose any intermediate aperture/speed regardless of the "clicks". (I can't speak for the shutterspeed of the M7)

 

[pvdhaar]

As a matter of fact they are continuous i.e. you can choose any intermediate aperture/speed regardless of the "clicks".

This is really interesting, do you mean that you can have the shutter dial in between two speeds and get an intermediate time? The aperture I understand, it's just a diaphragm on the lens..

Is this just the MP or would it work on more (mechanical) camera's? And if it works, does it cause additional strain on the mechanism?

 

[jaapv]

I only know this for a fact for the camera's from M2 up to and including the M6 The MP should be the same. It is just a simple clockwork shutter control... No strain as Leica themselves give the possibility in their publications.

 

[dll927]

I have an M4-2 that is 22 years old, and I've been given to understand that the shutter dial can be set between the marked speeds. How useful it is would probably be open to question, since the aperture controls have half-stop clicks on the three lenses I have.

Cameras with aperture-priority AE have had 'stepless' shutters for years. I have a Minolta X-700 that I bought in 1985 that has such, and my Maxxum 7 lenses don't even have aperture rings- that is set by dials on the camera body and shows up in the LCD window.

However, both cameras can be turned off for manual control. That cam be useful for tricky lighting situations. And, needless to say, my Leica M4-2 doesn't even know what a battery is. It's totally manual.

 

[JNewell]

I know that the M5 shutter will do intermediate speeds and bet that every other M with the same shutter will do the same, but Leitz used to advise that :

1. accuracy wasn't guaranteed (i.e., halfway between 125 and 250 may not = 182.5th), and

2. it doesn't work between 30 and 60 (which is where the 1/50th X sync is).

That's all IIRC.

 

[mad_boy]

All my 4 lenses have intermediate 'half-clicks'.
As for the M's with have build in lightmeters, these should even work on the positions in-between the clicks and the half-clicks (if the ring will stay there)

Mad_boy

 

[jdos2]

My MP's manual advises to use the shutter only at the notched speeds.

 

[bobofish]

cool beans.....I thought so.
Problem is, everything I read said that it wasn't that way...but if Hasselblad can do it, why not Leica?
So that's good news for me, thanks guys.
Cheers.

 

[Doug]

The Carl Zeiss lenses now available for the Zeiss-Ikon RF camera coming along this Fall do have 1/3-stop click-detents, quite unusual.

 

[pvdhaar]

Ok guys and gals, I've tried intermediate settings on my Bessa-T just to see what happens.

In between 1 and 1/2 second as well as between 1/2 and 1/4 I can hear that the shutter does a speed somewhere in between. So I guess that it's not restricted to the Leicas, but that it's a generic feature of entirely mechanical shutters.

But I'll stick to the standard speeds though, and adjust exposure with the half stops on the lenses..

 

[Rico]

My M lenses (Summicron 35 versions III and IV) have aperture detents at the ½ stops. My LTM Summaron 35/2.8, however, has full-stop detents only. I prefer the latter.

For M bodies, the shutter speeds have full-stop detents. Except for M7, speeds may be set continuously within each escapement. The high-speed escapement runs from 1/1000s to 1/15s; low-speed is 1/8s to 1s. From the manual for my M4, p.14: "Intermediate shutter speeds may be set between the click-stop settings, except between 1/8 and 1/15 sec".

 

[aizan]

i like half detents. you're only ever going to be 1/4 stop away from perfect exposure, and it's not much of an imposition between changing the aperture. that's the main reason i doubt i'd ever get comfortable with the zeiss lenses, aside from the focus bump. anyone have experience with it? it doesn't seem big enough to swing the lens quickly...maybe it turns easily enough. how do owners find it?

 

[Biggles]

Half-stop clicks on both my 1970s Leitz CL M-mount lenses- 40mm f2 and 90mm f4.

I actually prefer full-stop clicks only, though, since it's easier to figure out where one has stopped without looking at the barrel, as long as one remembers where one started. Habit I picked up with Nikon enlarger lenses, which are full-stop clicked.

 

[JNewell]

Interesting. The M5 instructions say "Intermediate speeds can be set over the whole range, except direct [sic] below the dot indicating the 1/50th sec synchronization speed for electronic flash."

 

[jaapv]

I would guess that is because if you have an extra click between 1/30th and 1/60th (i.e. 1/50th )it is a bit difficult to find a spot where the dial will stay "unclicked" without slipping into one of the speeds.

 

[zpuskas]

My M6 TTL manual says, "Intermediate speeds cannot be selected."

 

[dll927]

So it sounds as if Leitz itself has changed opinions on different models. If the instruction book says so, it must be gospel for that model.

As for half-stops, a couple of my FSU lenses have them, and most Japanese lenses do, so they must be contagious.

 

[jaapv]

My M6 TTL manual says, "Intermediate speeds cannot be selected."

As I never do half-stops on the shutter,why should I, I don't find any photographic reason for it,I took time off yesterday to try it out. Obviously one will not see the difference on film, but it is possible to set the time intermediate on the M6TTL judging by the Leds. It is however pretty difficult to do so, despite the larger dial, so I guess that is the reason Leica doesn't recommend it.