Sisyphus
Sisyphus
Ok, your opinion will be greatly appreciated?
Here is the quick and dirty situation:
I did a freelance job, the person signed the contract, agreeing to pay me 50% deposit, which turned out to be 10%. I agreed to do the job, and he agreed to pay me when the job was done. I finished the job, client does not have the money to pay me. He agrees to give me a Noctilux in exchange for all the materials that I photographed. I agreed, clients gives the Noctilux.
There are two problems:
First, the client realized how valuable this lens has become and now wants it back in excahnge for the money he owes, but does not have the cash to pay me, and wants to work out a pyment plan. I am not a photogrpahy who makes their living by photogrpahy, however, I pick up freelance jobs here and there to support my addiction. I told him that I am not in the position to be able to wait for him to make payments to me, per month, for an x number of months, since I need part of this income to pay back what I spent on my credit, and the other part for an upcoming trip. I told the client if they can come up with the funds to pay me in a reasonable amount of time, then I will return the lens to them. We did sign a new contract stating that I agreed the payment to be in the form of a lens as exchange, yet he is now threatening to take me to court.
Second, I only recently read the thread about the Noct lens, and it's now cult following. I have never used this lens, I have not yet used the lens that I took in exchange. I am not sure if I am interested in keeping the lens, as I may need to sell the lens to cover my expenses for other things. I generally use two lenses now--a 24mm and a Pre-ASPH 35mm summilux--I have a Pre-ASPH 50 summilux that I bring with me, but rarely use it. If anything I was more interested in the ASPH 35mm Summilux, but it seems as though few people like this lens in comparison to the PRE-ASPH 35mm.
I am not sure if it is worth keeping this lens, selling this lens, or waiting for the person to come with the funds to pay me? I have RECENTLY read all the reviews on this forum and others and the only conclusion I can come up with that some people like it, and others can do without it, and it doesn't really matter to them.
Assuming the person does not come up with the funds for the lens, which I do not think they will, I need to decide what to do with the lens, either keep it or sell it? I am also planning to travel a little this summer, and thought about using this lens on this trip, then making a decision, but I am concerend about the interest accruing on the account that I used to front the expenses for this job. :bang:
Any advice would be helpful . . . !
Thanks,
Sisyphus
Here is the quick and dirty situation:
I did a freelance job, the person signed the contract, agreeing to pay me 50% deposit, which turned out to be 10%. I agreed to do the job, and he agreed to pay me when the job was done. I finished the job, client does not have the money to pay me. He agrees to give me a Noctilux in exchange for all the materials that I photographed. I agreed, clients gives the Noctilux.
There are two problems:
First, the client realized how valuable this lens has become and now wants it back in excahnge for the money he owes, but does not have the cash to pay me, and wants to work out a pyment plan. I am not a photogrpahy who makes their living by photogrpahy, however, I pick up freelance jobs here and there to support my addiction. I told him that I am not in the position to be able to wait for him to make payments to me, per month, for an x number of months, since I need part of this income to pay back what I spent on my credit, and the other part for an upcoming trip. I told the client if they can come up with the funds to pay me in a reasonable amount of time, then I will return the lens to them. We did sign a new contract stating that I agreed the payment to be in the form of a lens as exchange, yet he is now threatening to take me to court.
Second, I only recently read the thread about the Noct lens, and it's now cult following. I have never used this lens, I have not yet used the lens that I took in exchange. I am not sure if I am interested in keeping the lens, as I may need to sell the lens to cover my expenses for other things. I generally use two lenses now--a 24mm and a Pre-ASPH 35mm summilux--I have a Pre-ASPH 50 summilux that I bring with me, but rarely use it. If anything I was more interested in the ASPH 35mm Summilux, but it seems as though few people like this lens in comparison to the PRE-ASPH 35mm.
I am not sure if it is worth keeping this lens, selling this lens, or waiting for the person to come with the funds to pay me? I have RECENTLY read all the reviews on this forum and others and the only conclusion I can come up with that some people like it, and others can do without it, and it doesn't really matter to them.
Assuming the person does not come up with the funds for the lens, which I do not think they will, I need to decide what to do with the lens, either keep it or sell it? I am also planning to travel a little this summer, and thought about using this lens on this trip, then making a decision, but I am concerend about the interest accruing on the account that I used to front the expenses for this job. :bang:
Any advice would be helpful . . . !
Thanks,
Sisyphus
Posession is 9/10ths of the Law, you have a signed contract, the Client stiffed you for the Cash, and he has the money to take you to court?
Wow. You need to pick a better clientele. If you are good enough to give his lens back after he pays you what he owes, he should be happy. Sounds like he'll take the lens and run. I would keep the collateral, or tell him you will sell it, keep the money that he owes you, and give him the left-over amount. But again, if you have a signed contract...Mighty NICE of you...
Wow. You need to pick a better clientele. If you are good enough to give his lens back after he pays you what he owes, he should be happy. Sounds like he'll take the lens and run. I would keep the collateral, or tell him you will sell it, keep the money that he owes you, and give him the left-over amount. But again, if you have a signed contract...Mighty NICE of you...
cjm
Well-known
IMHO, try shooting a few rolls with it. If you really like the images it produces, then keep it. If not, then sell it.
Regarding the contract, when did you enter into the new contract to accept the Noct in satisfaction of this person's debt? You might want to know how much the Noct was worth at that time since the prices fluctuate. Did the contract state the FMV of the Noct?
You mentioned the client realized how valuable the Noct "has become." Did this person realize the approximate value when you entered into the new contract?
This can probably be resolved in small claims court since and individual can ask up to $7500 (assuming your in CA). You may want to consult a lawyer.
Regarding the contract, when did you enter into the new contract to accept the Noct in satisfaction of this person's debt? You might want to know how much the Noct was worth at that time since the prices fluctuate. Did the contract state the FMV of the Noct?
You mentioned the client realized how valuable the Noct "has become." Did this person realize the approximate value when you entered into the new contract?
This can probably be resolved in small claims court since and individual can ask up to $7500 (assuming your in CA). You may want to consult a lawyer.
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ferider
Veteran
While the guy's integrity is questionable, you might still just sell the lens, give him back the surplus (minus, say 30% or so that you keep for your trouble). Then take the money and buy a 75/1.4. Much better lens 
Cheers,
Roland.
Cheers,
Roland.
Krosya
Konicaze
Keep the Nocti. Let it sit. It'll just grow in value. Sell it in a while - make even more money. Tell your client to go to hell. If he goes to court you can get him for breach of a contract.
kevin m
Veteran
That's what most of 'em do.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
I'm looking to see this on Judge Judy in the coming months....
maddoc
... likes film again.
The Noctilux is maybe a "cult-lens" for a couple of reasons but in the end it is only a lens. Give it a try and see if you like the results. You might prefer it over the Summilux 50mm (that you rarely use) and could sell that lens. If you don't like the Nocilux, sell it keep the cash and don't look back.
ali_baba
Well-known
whats the serial # of the lens you acquired?
MikeL
Go Fish
Sisyphus, I hope the lens isn't hot.
Sisyphus
Sisyphus
Thanks for all of your comments.
Brian, I feel like this client is a little difficult, and really has no merit to request that I give him back the lens, but at the same time I do not necessarily want to allow material things to necessarily control my life. However, with that being I do want to be fairly compensated, and I gave the client until Friday to fairly compensate me for the work that I did, and the work that he requested, which I delivered. If he is not able to then told him that I need the lens to compensate me for the work, without him harassing me. I could use a quite a few other colorful metaphors, but I will keep it a minimal. He was threatening to take me to small claims court.
CJM--We entered the contract for the exchange last week. This is after I did a little research to make sure that I was being fairly compensated for the work I did. I was not aware, and do not if he was aware of the potential of the lens, which is what he might be regretting now.
Ali baba--it is a slightly older lens. It does not have the 6-bit coding, which is not concern for me, and it does not have the built in hood. If I decide to sell the lens, I will PM you the serial number, in case you might be interested.
I will wait until friday to see what happens--but I have bills to pay--this is the frustrating part.
Brian, I feel like this client is a little difficult, and really has no merit to request that I give him back the lens, but at the same time I do not necessarily want to allow material things to necessarily control my life. However, with that being I do want to be fairly compensated, and I gave the client until Friday to fairly compensate me for the work that I did, and the work that he requested, which I delivered. If he is not able to then told him that I need the lens to compensate me for the work, without him harassing me. I could use a quite a few other colorful metaphors, but I will keep it a minimal. He was threatening to take me to small claims court.
CJM--We entered the contract for the exchange last week. This is after I did a little research to make sure that I was being fairly compensated for the work I did. I was not aware, and do not if he was aware of the potential of the lens, which is what he might be regretting now.
Ali baba--it is a slightly older lens. It does not have the 6-bit coding, which is not concern for me, and it does not have the built in hood. If I decide to sell the lens, I will PM you the serial number, in case you might be interested.
I will wait until friday to see what happens--but I have bills to pay--this is the frustrating part.
Sisyphus
Sisyphus
Mike, I don't think it is, I asked him a lot questions before accepting it as payment.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
The Noctilux is a great lens. Use it and enjoy it.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Oh what a bugger.
My own inclination -- no more than that -- is to keep the lens if you possibly can, because once the financial crisis is over (and it will pass) you'll have a really interesting lens that can take some great pictures. Unless of course you don't use it, or use it and don't like it, in which case, flog it.
I CERTAINLY wouldn't give him the lens back, even against full payment. He's stiffed you once; he hasn't got the money... I don't think he'd have a hope in hell in the Small Claims Court. I can think of at least two legal maxims: "He who wishes equity, must do equity" and "He who seeks equity must come with clean hands."
If you do decide to give it back, don't do so until you've got ALL the money (with interest), and don't consider giving him a percentage of the sale price if you decide to sell it.
Cheers,
R.
My own inclination -- no more than that -- is to keep the lens if you possibly can, because once the financial crisis is over (and it will pass) you'll have a really interesting lens that can take some great pictures. Unless of course you don't use it, or use it and don't like it, in which case, flog it.
I CERTAINLY wouldn't give him the lens back, even against full payment. He's stiffed you once; he hasn't got the money... I don't think he'd have a hope in hell in the Small Claims Court. I can think of at least two legal maxims: "He who wishes equity, must do equity" and "He who seeks equity must come with clean hands."
If you do decide to give it back, don't do so until you've got ALL the money (with interest), and don't consider giving him a percentage of the sale price if you decide to sell it.
Cheers,
R.
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wyk_penguin
Well-known
What kind of broke client has a Noctilux sitting on the shelf and doesn't know the value of it? Keep the lens and forget about him/her.
Don't use the lens if you plan to sell it. You may get hooked.
Don't use the lens if you plan to sell it. You may get hooked.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
What kind of broke client has a Noctilux sitting on the shelf . . .
Don't use the lens if you plan to sell it. You may get hooked.
Clue: he's not broke. He can afford a Noctilux because he doesn't pay people...
Second para: seconded!
Cheers,
R.
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Sisyphus
Sisyphus
Just update: The client could not come up with the funds, so I am keeping the lens for now. Since photography is not my main source of income, I merely pick up freelance work when the job is more interesting to me. This was for a wedding, and rather involved as well, and since he needed to keep his bride happy, and he seemed to have little choice in the situation, as I was not going to release the images, until I was compensated. Evidently, he inhereted an M system and the Noctilux from hid grandfather, hence the reason why I was willing to give it back to him if he could pay me by last week.
Since then I have tested the lens, I put two rolls of film through it so far, One black and white, and one color. I picked up the color roll last week, and I was thoroughly impressed. I took several pictures of a friend of mine in a bar--I know the unequivocal bar scene--however there he stood under this red light, I could barely make out his face, and everything that I hav learned about photography, told there is no way in hell this image would turn out, without his face being silhoutted, depsite my camera readings, which was telling me something different. The result rendered full shadow detail. I am quite impressed with how this lens works, and I fear I am becoming addicted to it. I seldom use a 50mm, but now I just may go back to my roots.
I am aware that the digital cameras and their ISO's are become remarkably fast, and this becoming a non-issue for many photogrpahers nowadays, who want to photograph in low light, however, I am just not that interested in digital photgraphy, at least for the moment. I still have bills to pay from this job, which means I need to find a few more freelance jobs, which was not my original intent.
Hope all is well, and thanks for your replies.
Thomas (AKA Sisyphus)
PS If anyone is interested, I updated my blog, by finally learning how to make the images larger. I spent quite a few hours this past weekend, figuring this out. They may be too large now, yet, I like the details that I was not able to see before.
Any feedback would be appreciated . . .
Since then I have tested the lens, I put two rolls of film through it so far, One black and white, and one color. I picked up the color roll last week, and I was thoroughly impressed. I took several pictures of a friend of mine in a bar--I know the unequivocal bar scene--however there he stood under this red light, I could barely make out his face, and everything that I hav learned about photography, told there is no way in hell this image would turn out, without his face being silhoutted, depsite my camera readings, which was telling me something different. The result rendered full shadow detail. I am quite impressed with how this lens works, and I fear I am becoming addicted to it. I seldom use a 50mm, but now I just may go back to my roots.
I am aware that the digital cameras and their ISO's are become remarkably fast, and this becoming a non-issue for many photogrpahers nowadays, who want to photograph in low light, however, I am just not that interested in digital photgraphy, at least for the moment. I still have bills to pay from this job, which means I need to find a few more freelance jobs, which was not my original intent.
Hope all is well, and thanks for your replies.
Thomas (AKA Sisyphus)
PS If anyone is interested, I updated my blog, by finally learning how to make the images larger. I spent quite a few hours this past weekend, figuring this out. They may be too large now, yet, I like the details that I was not able to see before.
Any feedback would be appreciated . . .
jack palmer
Well-known
This is a no-brainer in my opinion and surprises me that you have to even think about it. A 10% deposit after an agreement of 50%. Then he can't come up with the balance when the job is done? Then pays you with the lens and now wants it back and to work out a payment plan? What a laugh. Every time he called and cryed to get the lens back it would give me greater satisfaction. Keep the lens. It's your agreed on payment for the job. This guy sure didn't mind jerking you around. This guy is a terrible business man... and your going to make it RIGHT for him?
jasoncohen
Member
Just keep the lens and sell it to me
furcafe
Veteran
Where on earth have you been hanging out? I'm 1 of many who love the 35/1.4 'lux ASPH. It's my most heavily-used Leica lens (followed by the Noctilux). It's usually the pre-ASPH that people bash, since it's a flare-magnet wide-open.