Today I broke a Kiev IIa

R

ruben

Guest
It didn't fall. I broke it during lubrication. Apparently, my over lubrication works for the model 4am but not for older models. The camera winding went stiffer and stiffer and at some progressively it got stucked. A bit of my hand force helped too.

As for the over lubrication with grease, there is a commonly known phenomena with the Kiev Helical, accepting only minimal amounts of grease, otherwise becomming stiff because of too much grease. I guess this is what happened.

Now, before any one starts to send condolences for the funeral, it should be noted that this Kiev IIa arrived to me some year ago very very stiff. Therefore I put it to sleep. At the same time I had a smooth Kiev 4m model 1965 lying with a broken meter and other cosmetic problems, so I dis-assembled for my first time the shutter assembly of both cameras, and revived the Kiev IIa with the shutter assembly of the 4m.

But I am happy to have started dis-assembling the whole Kiev shutter compound and being able to have practiced heart transplant in the same occasion.

So consider this both as a warning, and lesson about the price of knowledge, and wait with the lyrics.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Our ever fearless explorer into the unknown! Breaking a older model Kiev must have hurt.. Still, it's a learning point. Thankfully it didn't cost much.

Btw, would Singer oil (which is mainly used in sewing machines and the like) work for kiev cameras? the multi purpose grease I'm using is pretty sticky...
 
An overabundance of grease is not good. Air tends to dry the grease out and it becomes hard. I used a lightweight oil on my Fed 2 and it works great. Not saying you overgreased your camera Ruben, just a warning to others who may go down this road. Synthetic greases are not as bad though.
 
ruben said:
So consider this both as a warning, and lesson about the price of knowledge, and wait with the lyrics.
Click to expand...

Ruben, fear not. Laboratory explosions are to be expected when we flip the switch of discovery. As my own small contribution I shall at once get to work on a version of Sade's "Smooth Operator"!

Singer Oil, eh? There's a thought.....

Kate Bush.

There's another.

Cheers, Ian:)
 
Hi Samuel,
At RFF oil is held as dangerous, since it migrates. Yet at other sites there is less nervs about it.

According to my limited experience with the Kievs, oil is not going to make big improvement. Currently my belief is on grease, with minimal ammounts and a lot of winding with application, after cleaning the gears.

Good grease looks as a very soft material, like tooth paste. If your grease isn't good, get a good one. I have no knowledge what synthetic oil is. I use the best machinery grease, which I get from my work place.

Neverthelees, if you stick to oil, be minimal of the minimal, considering that with winding it spreads beyond what you see.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Jocko said:
Ruben, fear not. Laboratory explosions are to be expected when we flip the switch of discovery. As my own small contribution I shall at once get to work on a version of Sade's "Smooth Operator"!

Singer Oil, eh? There's a thought.....

Kate Bush.

There's another.

Cheers, Ian:)
Click to expand...

hi Ian,
I can understand some relationship between Bush and Oil, but who is Kate the singer ?..... These days you are rocketing too high for common folks like me to follow, I bet you are working on another half nude series for the comming FSU contest, right ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
I always mourn at the loss of a Kiev-IIa but I know he/she's off to a better world were every comrade field-worker owns his/hers own tractor. ;)
 
ruben said:
hi Ian,
I can understand some relationship between Bush and Oil, but who is Kate the singer ?..... These days you are rocketing too high for common folks like me to follow, I bet you are working on another half nude series for the comming FSU contest, right ?

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...


Oh Ruben! I have no secrets anymore! I am exposed!

You'd like Kate Bush - a rather eccentric and startlingly original British singer who greatly "troubled" many innocent young fellows of my generation :)

Cheers, Ian
 
alternatve said:
Our ever fearless explorer into the unknown! Breaking a older model Kiev must have hurt.. ...... Thankfully it didn't cost much.

..
Click to expand...

Actually there are many interesting points about this Kiev IIa.

First, it arrived stiff to the point of being almost un-usable. I paid a hundred before shipment, to a highly reputable dealer from Ukraine, the same who sold me my best Kiev, a 4am.

When I opened the camera I noticed it was fully clean (very dubitable for a 1957 model to say the least) and no lubrication at all. Besides many components didn't look but quite younger than 1957. Now why the stiffness?
As I further disassembled the camera turned softer.

So my assumption is that only the external parts were 1957 and the camera internals passed through some heart transplant like the one I performed today. And the stiffness was due to the minor possible differences between the original size parts and the transplanted ones.

In my home transplant, I took a very very smooth 1969 shutter assemblyl, and it entered without problem into the 1957 skeleton. Within it, it turned less soft but softer than the one I got as officially IIa 1957. So it is possible to assume we are going to buy a lot of IIa plates with 1975 shutters.

BTW these days I have been looking at the internet for Kievs and I get the feeling the market is in a kind of eating the last bones. I.e, transplantation of parts is everywhere. Alex even sells unusable parts bodies by kilos. So either it has become common practice among sellers or there may be several big centres where older Kievs arrive in big amounts to be stripped and converted to somehow usable cameras, from which many ebay sellers buy their "fully tested by repairman" cameras.

The flourishing of outspokenly fake "Contaxes" and "Leicas" supports this assumption as well. Someone asked lately where the black plates come from ? Well, this industry is progressing.

In my opinion this is not necessarily bad. And this explains too why to buy an original 4am is quite convenient as well.
 
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ruben said:
Hi Samuel,
At RFF oil is held as dangerous, since it migrates. Yet at other sites there is less nervs about it.
Good grease looks as a very soft material, like tooth paste. If your grease isn't good, get a good one. I have no knowledge what synthetic oil is. I use the best machinery grease, which I get from my work place.
.

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...

I have worked as a bulk lubercants speciallist since I was 19 years old and have studied the many different properties of lubricating oils & greases. When a jobber or a multi million $ machine calls for a specific oil or grease you can't waiver.So on that (and I'm not trying to come off as mean or anything)but I was just stating that certain greases especially multi-purpose greases tend to harden when exposed to air. Synthetic grease is a man made grease with a very good resistance to high temps. & elements of the weather. Holds it's properties really well, unlike conventional greases. This is why you here of 50 year old cameras all gunked up and have to be cla'd because the grease became hard. Thats why you don't wan't to use any grease to lube a camera where you can't readily reach the gears, unless you enjoy tearing down your cameras.
 
Hi...
Have a look at Laika's resurrected step-by-step Thread:

FED2 - DIY VF/RF Service (long w/images) ...
for a partial service, regarding the crud under the top plate of the Fed-2.
For sure, the issues of solvents, oil & grease are dealt with there, as well as
in the various Kiev, Fed & Zorki Survival Sites.

Re: Ruben's broken KIIa... I hope it is the one I once tested with a J8; the
winding/shutter cocking was really rough. Can we look upon it, like one of the many Wright brothers models that crashed, before the successful one flew at Kitty Hawk in 1903? Shh... I think that buddy Ruben has a few more Kievs.

Cheers, mike ;)
PS: I just noticed gb hill's post above this one.
It is good to have a resident expert in lubricants aboard.
 
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Here is a simple test to try at home. Get a couple of small bottles. Pour regular multi-weight oil in one bottle, like 5w30. 1/2 full. Do same with a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or any other syn. oil. Put both in your refrigerator for a few days to get really cold. Take out and turn bottles upside down & watch the flow of oil. The reg. oil will flow like malassess, while the synthetic oil will keep it's same density no matter what the temperature. Now you know what your cylinder walls are going through in the dead of winter until the engine heats up.
 
ruben said:
Actually there are many interesting points about this Kiev IIa.

First, it arrived stiff to the point of being almost un-usable. I paid a hundred before shipment, to a highly reputable dealer from Ukraine, the same who sold me my best Kiev, a 4am.

When I opened the camera I noticed it was fully clean (very dubitable for a 1957 model to say the least) and no lubrication at all. Besides many components didn't look but quite younger than 1957. Now why the stiffness?
As I further disassembled the camera turned softer.

So my assumption is that only the external parts were 1957 and the camera internals passed through some heart transplant like the one I performed today. And the stiffness was due to the minor possible differences between the original size parts and the transplanted ones.

In my home transplant, I took a very very smooth 1969 shutter assemblyl, and it entered without problem into the 1957 skeleton. Within it, it turned less soft but softer than the one I got as officially IIa 1957. So it is possible to assume we are going to buy a lot of IIa plates with 1975 shutters.

BTW these days I have been looking at the internet for Kievs and I get the feeling the market is in a kind of eating the last bones. I.e, transplantation of parts is everywhere. Alex even sells unusable parts bodies by kilos. So either it has become common practice among sellers or there may be several big centres where older Kievs arrive in big amounts to be stripped and converted to somehow usable cameras, from which many ebay sellers buy their "fully tested by repairman" cameras.

The flourishing of outspokenly fake "Contaxes" and "Leicas" supports this assumption as well. Someone asked lately where the black plates come from ? Well, this industry is progressing.

In my opinion this is not necessarily bad. And this explains too why to buy an original 4am is quite convenient as well.
Click to expand...

The crooks! Now we'll never be sure till we open up the hood... Roll on the 4aM I suppose.

Are we running short of kievs, zorkis and feds? That's a scary thought...
 
Ruben
It is easy to repair your IIa.
Cotton buds (q tips) and organic solvent (e.g. zippo fluid)
Lock the shutter open on B, focus to 0.7m, remove all grease, with q tip, bend q tip as necessary.
When groves, dry of grease, run the focus back and forward from '8' to 0.7.
Repeat removal as above.
Repeat focus 8 to 0.7 as above
When you cannot get any more grease, on q tip, wet the q tip with zippo, and remove any grease residue.
repeat etc.
When the threads are clean clean clean leave them dry, ignore rattle.
If this is too too much for your mechanical sensitivity, apply a little PTFE liquid, say three drops. Tandy (Radio Spares) should heve PTFE liquid.
Noel
 
Hi Samuel,
I am not so sure the slaghterhouses and the deep desperation there for parts is so bad for us the users and consumers. What I would be really scary about is to pay a hundred and fifty bucks (or much more) for Kievs II and III. I think Contax buyers should start to worry too.


Hi Noel,
The whole shutter assembly is out already, and will be dealt with at due time. Rather sooner, as a parts body is in its way to me. Meanwhile the shutter assembly of that 4M, you wanted to send me the missing part, has been transplanted into the IIa.
I did it considering I really don't want a metered model. for its bigger size, weight and hardness to black paint that big meter dial.

The end result of all the operation is very positive.
Cheers,
Ruben

PS
What is Zippo fluid. The only I know is to fill lighters of cigarretes.
 
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ruben said:
Hi Samuel,
I am not so sure the slaghterhouses and the deep desperation there for parts is so bad for us the users and consumers. What I would be really scary about is to pay a hundred and fifty bucks (or much more) for Kievs II and III. I think Contax buyers should start to worry too.


Hi Noel,
The whole shutter assembly is out already, and will be dealt with at due time. Rather sooner, as a parts body is in its way to me. Meanwhile the shutter assembly of that 4M, you wanted to send me the missing part, has been transplanted into the IIa.
I did it considering I really don't want a metered model. for its bigger size, weight and hardness to black paint that big meter dial.

The end result of all the operation is very positive.
Cheers,
Ruben

PS
What is Zippo fluid. The only I know is to fill lighters of cigarretes.
Click to expand...


I agree. The prices of the II and III series is getting a bit too much. But they should level off after a while. A kiev can't cost as much as a contax eh? I hope not!

Zippo fluid is lighter fluid. Being petrolum based, it's a good cleaner and evaporates into the atmosphere as well.
 
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