Torn

Robin Harrison

Robin Harrison

aka Harrison Cronbi
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Joined
Apr 12, 2005
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I am torn. Many things are telling me that the R-D1 is the 'sensible' camera for me to buy:

- I have used pretty much nothing but rangefinder cameras for a year.
- I have a pretty decent PC / printer combo and am experience with Photoshop CS2.
- The photos I took in China last September are only just about ready for display (so much time scanning, cleaning etc). I am tired of developing / scanning.
- I have a largish selection of M/LTM lenses.
- I enjoy shooting between 28 an 90mm
- I don't print larger than A4, and for my style of images, that's enough.

But on the other hand:

- The M6 is a near-perfect tool, so solid, so right.
- Built-in framelines 28-135 (vs 42-75 for R-D1)
- Tri-X is a great film.
- Scanning an ISO 100 film at 5400 dpi produces a wonderfully detailed image.
- I prefer looking at a negative sheet to a directory of files.
- I've had a 300D for ove 18months and have been using it with 24/28/50/85mm manual focus lenses. I don't really enjoy shooting with it and I don't really get any good pictures with it!


The bottom line is that I couldn't justify the cost of a new R-D1, but given the relatively stable price of 2nd hand bodies, I think I will fund the purchase of one by selling some film gear. I think it's something I should have a go with. Despite the QA issues, most folks seem happy with their Epson's, and I think that's a good sign.

Does anyone have any stories of trying the R-D1 and then returning to film?
 
You mention that the M6 with Tri-X provides a "wonderfully detailed image." There is quite a bit of argument about whether a 6mp chip will give you quality as good as scanned 35...so if you're really big on wonderful details, you might consider more research -- like have somebody with a big web-page post their best raw R-D1 shot, then download and run it through your printing process and see if you like it. I think the R-D1 shots are great, but I'm not looking for max sharpness and detail. Wonder if Sean Reid would consider doing this? He's a good photographer and strong on the Epson...in fact, it might be a nice idea on this whole forum if we could have "test shots" posted somewhere,, so people could look at a variety of images without having to buy the camera. I'll start a new thread on this in the general discussion.

JC
 
Robin Harrison said:
Does anyone have any stories of trying the R-D1 and then returning to film?
Click to expand...

I bet the answer to this question won't really help you much.

I would start by asking yourself why you need that RD-1 while you have the M6. I bet if you can answer that question, you already find the answer.

Oh, I forgot, you already debated with yourself and still can't make up your mind. Sorry.

I will say sounds like you want to try one for the heck of it. So the last question is: do you have the cash?
 
I have and love the RD-1. But I still use the M6TTL, too.

I'd say, if you're planning on selling the M6 to finance the RD-1, then no. At least I wouldn't have done that.

But if you can sell the 300D and all the lenses and get the RD-1, then absolutely.
 
Robin
I've only had my R-D1 for less than a week, but as a R3A user and a DSLR user (canon 20D) I can make some general comments
.Results at ISO400 are alot like Tri-X
.If you prefer rangefinders but want to try digital, this is the camera for you.
In fact it is the ONLY camera for you.
.There is somewhat of a gap @ 28mm. Using a 21mm gives you effective 33mm and the 15mm Heliar around 22mm. Get use to accessary finders at these focal lengths.
That being said, I love the experience of being able to shoot digital with a rangefinder. I also like shooting with my DSLR but, I would be preaching to the choir here in saying that the experiences are totally different.
Rex
 
In the 8 months I have owned my R-D1 my M6 has collected nothing but dust. I can't imagine returning to film.
 
John Camp said:
You mention that the M6 with Tri-X provides a "wonderfully detailed image." There is quite a bit of argument about whether a 6mp chip will give you quality as good as scanned 35...
Click to expand...

The scanned film I was referring to for the detailed image was ISO 100 film. Fuji Acros and Provia both provide a lot of detail. Like I said, I do have a Canon Digital Rebel which I have made some basic comparisons to film with. The results are just...different. The detail is different. I think you need more than a 6MP scan of film to resolve the sort of detail a 6mp camera sensor can, but at 40MP, the scanned (slow) film has the edge for my eyes.
 
Thanks for the comments, all. Have decided that the R-D1 is for me, when the price is right. I have just missed out on one on ebay (ended two hours ago, I was the 2nd highest bidder). Best keep my eyes peeled, I guess!
 
Robin Harrison said:
Does anyone have any stories of trying the R-D1 and then returning to film?
Click to expand...

After putting down a camera for 10 years, I jumped on the DSLR bandwagon when the D30 hit the shelves in late 2000. I loved the camera and it re-awoke the photographer in me. I loved the immediate response and all of the benefits of digital. I then picked up the D60 when it came out. After a few years, I was tired of carrying around the DSLR kit. I wanted something light, that took good pictures, and let me change lenses. I had read 'Slightly Out of Focus' by Capa and had a subconscious lust for a range finder.

.. And then the R-D1 was announced. I tracked the camera like I tracked the D30 when it was originally announced. I saved up and bought one. I _love_ the camera. The problem though, is that this camera re-awoke the film in me. Maybe it is because I was spending 10 - 12 hours in front of a computer. I became sick of digital. I was tired of using a computer. I wanted analogue. I wanted a Leica.

I convinced the wife that my newborn needed a camera to be passed down when he was of age, and a fully mechanical MP fit the bill. I now soup the film in the kitchen and love the analogue nature of it. Developing for me is a time to escape the drudgery of the computer and actually do something. Playing in photoshop is not like playing with rodinal, diafine, or D76.

At this point, I think I have the best of both worlds. My wife _loves_ the R-D1. I taught her all about aperture/shutter-speed/depth-of-field and she is getting good results. She hates the DSLRs (too many buttons, too large, too slow), and loves the immediate results when she presses the shutter button. With the MP, I get the value of film (in my mind, I see each roll as a new CCD chip being dropped in), and I also get the value of wide angle lenses.

We use the R-D1 for various events and love the immediate results. You can't beat the glass, and seeing/uploading/sharing the results when we get home is great. I shoot film at the same time and develop on the weekends, and scan the next day.

The R-D1 is a great camera. I would buy it all over again.
 
I can relate going to an MP. My problem with film was always the print-making part of the darkroom; I was never that much into it. But you can process the B&W itself, and brilliantly, in the bathroom with a plastic pot and a thermometer and then scan it; and forget all that enlarger stuff. I really like the look of heavily pushed Tri-X; Makes me think of Humphrey Bogart movies. And I never really had a chance to shoot that ASA 3200 stuff, but I bet that could be pretty cool, too. I'm waiting for a digital M; but as I wait, I see an MP for sale and I sorta get the shakes.

JC
 
I have had my RD-1 for about 15 months I love it, but I would not want to part with my Leica M4, which I have owned from new for 30 years. This may of course be sentimental attachment rather than good sense, as since owning the R-D1 it has only seen limited use.

I think the slippery slope for me was disposing of my darkroom equipment a few years back. Although there for me is still a special magic about a B&W silver print, once one has taken the digital print route I can see little point in shooting on film and then scanning this in unless you have to. This is provided you can find a digital camera that suits the way you work.

I am still scanning in from my back catalogue of thousands of negatives (when I can find time), but now I have the R-D1 it mainly meets my needs in most circumstances. I would prefer it to have built in framelines that give me at least the equivalent of genuine 35mm lens coverage on fullframe and this is where I do revert to the Leica and dev & scan the film, or when I want or need to use a camera with no digital equivalent such as my X-Pan or 5 x 4.
 
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I've had my RD-1 for just coming up for a year and I love it. However, I recently dug out my Canon F1 and enjoyed the experience so much that I bought a Bronica RF 645. The first roll back from the Canon (HP5) was great (in parts - I was compensating for using a 1.5 volt battery). The first two rolls from the Bronica got lost in the post (fortunately only test shots). I now find myself in the position of waiting for a Jobo CPE processor etc to be delivered from an ebay purchase, a shed load of chemicals and ancillary equipment due any day and a scanner (Epson 4990) due to be delivered tomorrow. So, all I'd say is don't get rid of your film stuff just yet.

Watch this space, as their may be some sales in the near future - Jobo CPE 2, epson 4990 etc - as the romantic in me gets ousted by the impatient :D

Regards

Gid
 
rangefinder digital revolution on the horizon?

rangefinder digital revolution on the horizon?

Robin Harrison said:
I am torn. Many things are telling me that the R-D1 is the 'sensible' camera for me to buy....snip...
The M6 is a near-perfect tool, so solid, so right.
Click to expand...

I fight these mental battles all the time.
I would suggest that you be patient and wait for one year. Leica might announce their digital solution to their M line. While it will most likely be beyond the means of many of us, it may ignite more interest in other companies and manufacturers to jump in the fire.
We know that Zeiss is keeping the door open.
Zeiss cameras and some lenses are produced by Cosina at the same facilty where the Bessas and the RD-1s are put together.
It may be a long shot to hope for, but consider which segment of the market is not yet served by a solid, large file digital camera.
Most professional photographers already own a mid to high level DSLR.
Most amateurs already own a point and shoot with at least a 4 megapixel chip.

I would argue that the rangefinder crowd is a largely untapped market for digital cameras.

The RD-1 is a terrific first stab at filling that void, but it's certainly not that perfect solution that the M6 is for film.

I would love to splurge and buy an RD-1 tomorrow, but my instincts are telling me to wait just a little bit longer to see what shakes out.
Chris
 
It took Leica nearly 50 years to come up with the M6. If it's gonna take that long for them to catch up with the digital (r)evolution, I'm not gonna wait for it, jsut like many Leica users didn't wait for the M6.
 
Your dribble can be a good tool with the right lenses. That camera is NOT made for manual focus. You slap a 100mm f2.8 macro or 50mm 1.4 or even the newer autofocus 85, you're going to get some wonderful results.

I'm sort a discovering the place for my dribble.. macro, quickies, and zoom -- in color. For a while I had been trying out b&w, developed a really good workflow, but after discovering b&w film, it's.. different. I enjoy using my ZI and Contax G2 and M2 for everything else :)

So perhaps you might want to try picking up a couple higher-quality EF or EFS lenses for your dribble -- if you can, rent them first to see whether you'll like the results. I'm not saying the manual focus lenses aren't good.. they're just very, very difficult to get good results from in the horrid dribble viewfinder.

I'm happy with my RF kit now, of course, would like a few more lenses :) But I'm also saving up now for a higher-quality dslr -- waiting until next year for the next gen stuff.

Jano
 
If there is one word of advise about purchasing it is, DON'T wait for the next generation stuff. It never gets here.
Having fun NOW in BeZerkely

Rex
 
Thanks for the advice, all. My 'used twice' 'perfect condition' second hand R-D1 should be with me on Thursday! I took a bit of a gamble with a seller who wasn't really aware of any of the QA issues, but the price was right, and it's in top condition.

Coming soon for sale: Black M6, CL, Canon P, lenses. Need to turn the red nujmber black....
 
Bit late now, but with the 'upgraded' RD-1s just around the corner (announced today), I'm not sure now is the best time to be buying a used RD-1 - unless it's going for a very good price. Rumours seem to suggest that the RD-1 is being repositioned at a lower price point (€2K).
 
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