Totally bokeh

[Neare]

You pretend dedicated photography teachers are worse photographers than students not even knowing basics...

You pretend a teacher should celebrate any kind of shot from a student...

You pretend photography is basically related to shutter and aperture...

You pretend composition is purely subjective...

Please don't pretend you've never heard the word naive... 😛

Cheers,

Juan

I think you have completely misunderstood what I was saying.
And I am fairly sure I am not pretending.

Was the person who put a camera in the hands of Bresson as a child and told him how to handle it, a better photographer than him?

Teachers can only teach the means to an end. They do not make the end happen itself.

Look, are all students better than their teachers? No.
Are there exceptions? Yes.

 

[alexnotalex]

Looks like my world without glasses.

remember, you get what you focus on

best
Alex

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

1. I think you have completely misunderstood what I was saying.
And I am fairly sure I am not pretending.

2. Was the person who put a camera in the hands of Bresson as a child and told him how to handle it, a better photographer than him?

Teachers can only teach the means to an end. They do not make the end happen itself.

3. Look, are all students better than their teachers? No.
Are there exceptions? Yes.

1. No, what you said is simple. And wrong.
2. Yes, that "imaginary" teacher was a better photographer than that "imaginary" child then, while being just a student.
3. No, no exceptions if we talk about a good teacher and a real student...

Now: did your imaginary child Bresson need to do shots totally out of focus? Not even being young... Was he as unlucky as to have his teacher congratulate him for such empty disguise, such false innovation? LOL.

Do you understand now?

Looks like you were mixing different times: photography teachers who know nothing about photography, and young students who are not young students but the best adult photographer in history...

No problem if you like out of focus photography. Even then, photography teachers won't support you there... That's not their job...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Neare]

1. No, what you said is simple. And wrong.
2. Yes, that "imaginary" teacher was a better photographer than that "imaginary" child then, while being just a student.
3. No, no exceptions if we talk about a good teacher and a real student...

Now: did your imaginary child Bresson need to do shots totally out of focus? Not even being young... Was he as unlucky as to have his teacher congratulate him for such empty disguise, such false innovation? LOL.

Do you understand now?

Looks like you were mixing different times: photography teachers who know nothing about photography, and young students who are not young students but the best adult photographer in history...

No problem if you like out of focus photography. Even then, photography teachers won't support you there... That's not their job...

Cheers,

Juan

Would you stand back and take a look at what you're saying?

You seem to have such a superiority complex. Is your photographic expertise greater than all those who take a photo intentionally out of focus?

Do you believe that (apart from the people supporting this idea in this thread) the entire world shares your view on out of focus images?

This is a forum whereby people encourage others to do photography and develop a unique style. However, you seem to only discourage others from being creative in their own right.

I'm sorry, all in all, your views are only as subjective as any teachers are. You're only human.

Otherwise, clearly you are the best photographer ever the world has not recognized yet.

 

[Sparrow]

I suppose it had to happen, a bit John Cage does photography ... interesting but pointless

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Would you stand back and take a look at what you're saying?

You seem to have such a superiority complex. Is your photographic expertise greater than all those who take a photo intentionally out of focus?

Do you believe that (apart from the people supporting this idea in this thread) the entire world shares your view on out of focus images?

This is a forum whereby people encourage others to do photography and develop a unique style. However, you seem to only discourage others from being creative in their own right.

I'm sorry, all in all, your views are only as subjective as any teachers are. You're only human.

Otherwise, clearly you are the best photographer ever the world has not recognized yet.

Unfortunately an out of focus print is not a style, as my teachers used to say... But don't believe me, please... Believe photography history: take a look at all those great out of focus photographers...

This is not against you: I haven't even seen any image of yours: this is about concepts and education. Teachers are not there to support permanent and total out of focus work. I was there when I was a student. I did it. That's why now I smile.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Neare]

Unfortunately an out of focus print is not a style, as my teachers used to say... But don't believe me, please... Believe photography history: take a look at all those great out of focus photographers...

This is not against you: I haven't even seen any image of yours: this is about concepts and education. Teachers are not there to support permanent and total out of focus work. I was there when I was a student. I did it. That's why now I smile.

Cheers,

Juan

Jackson Pollock throws paint onto a canvas. He does not 'paint' a subject, yet his work is what is simply known as Art.
He earns more money than you or me probably ever will. He is regarded as one of the most influential painters currently living.

I wonder what his school art teacher would have thought of him if he was asked to 'paint' something and simply flicked paint at his canvas?

I'd bet you they wouldn't be impressed.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Neare,

Kandinsky did it lots of decades before Pollock. Ask a teacher who was more influential. Or read about abstract art history.

Back to photography, when you produce an out of focus image, conceptually it's not the same as going away from figure in painting...

Back to my previous words: if we have Kandinsky and Pollock and others in painting, why no one's been great in photography history after being as genius as to rotate the lens' focus ring until total OOF rendering in his/her work as the standard procedure? Get it? It's nothing...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Neare]

Forgive my art history knowledge, it is not something I follow really.

I know of no famous photographers who have made a name simply on out of focus photography, this is true.

However, I know of famous photographers who have put together amazing pieces of work that have changed the world, that were done intentionally out of focus. Take a look at Robert Capa's work on D-day. He swears that it was done out of focus on purpose.

Just because a photo is blurry does not mean it's destined for the rubbish bin. If a person can put together a set of GREAT out of focus photographs, then by all means they should do that.
If you believe an out of focus photograph is 'nothing' then perhaps you cannot see what others, who do see something, see.
Therefore it is not the photographer who took the photo who is missing something, rather isn't it you not wanting to pay attention to what may be there.

By no means am I telling you to like an OOF photo. But who are you to say that others may not like them?

 

[Krosya]

You pretend dedicated photography teachers are worse photographers than students not even knowing basics...

You pretend a teacher should celebrate any kind of shot from a student...

You pretend photography is basically related to shutter and aperture...

You pretend composition is purely subjective...

Please don't pretend you've never heard the word naive... 😛

Cheers,

Juan

What in the world does this mean? I have no idea what you were trying to say.prove with this statement. Seriously.

 

[paparazzi mano]

Count to ten and then take a breather.,,,,,,,,,

Did you realized that you have just hijacked my post.

I just want to share my blurry world.

Pls take it outside

 

[cmogi10]

Neare, the way I see it it is a teachers responsibility to give the student a set of tools, a foundation in which they can build their own idea of what good photography is. The student should be forced to learn what it takes to make a sharp, in focus "correct" image with their camera and learning why before being allowed to wander around with their lenses wide open on aperture priority taking blurry pictures and calling it artistic.

And wouldn't the teacher have to be superior to the student in some way? or else the relationship wouldn't exist. Unless it's a bad break at a community college that is.


And of course Capa swears he that "it was out of focus on purpose", wouldn't you? hah

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

What in the world does this mean? I have no idea what you were trying to say.prove with this statement. Seriously.

Hi Krosya,

I didn't see your post before... I know no other word in english for naive... I wasn't meaning too much: only that all of his statements I did quote, were naive... It's a soft word...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Neare, the way I see it it is a teachers responsibility to give the student a set of tools, a foundation in which they can build their own idea of what good photography is. The student should be forced to learn what it takes to make a sharp, in focus "correct" image with their camera and learning why before being allowed to wander around with their lenses wide open on aperture priority taking blurry pictures and calling it artistic.

And wouldn't the teacher have to be superior to the student in some way? or else the relationship wouldn't exist. Unless it's a bad break at a community college that is.


And of course Capa swears he that "it was out of focus on purpose", wouldn't you? hah

That's it!

And about Capa's D-day: first, that's not real out of focus like the example before on this thread: Capa just used a bit of movement blur related to the rush of war... Second, he never used out of focus as the common thing in his photography... Third, he was not hiding any lack of skills or lack of creativeness in front of any teacher: he was a good photographer giving an appropriate and delicate mood to some war scenes.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[dfoo]

I'd say its more likely he was scared ****less, ducked behind some cover, shaking with fear and perhaps cold and trying to focus and take pictures at the same time. Results: blurry shaky images.

 

[dovi]

motion blur

motion blur

 

[Neare]

Neare, the way I see it it is a teachers responsibility to give the student a set of tools, a foundation in which they can build their own idea of what good photography is. The student should be forced to learn what it takes to make a sharp, in focus "correct" image with their camera and learning why before being allowed to wander around with their lenses wide open on aperture priority taking blurry pictures and calling it artistic.

And wouldn't the teacher have to be superior to the student in some way? or else the relationship wouldn't exist. Unless it's a bad break at a community college that is.


And of course Capa swears he that "it was out of focus on purpose", wouldn't you? hah

As to my first point let me just quote myself here

I know of no famous photographers who have made a name simply on out of focus photography, this is true.

Now for the second...

So here you agree that Juan, who is trying to be paparazzi mano's 'teacher', has the right to discredit his work because it is out of focus?
Now of course a teacher would tell a student how to take a focused photo, that is a moot point. That is the first step in teaching photography is it not? But I am not under the impression that paparazzi mano needs to be taught how to use a camera. From his flickr stream I can see he is very capable in fact. Rather what this discussion has turned into is about the attitude some have towards others creativity. That simply because it is out of focus, that it is rubbish and should not be called photography? You are so conceited.

You say I am naive? Whatever, I'm very happy with where I stand.

My friends, you would make appalling teachers. Your attitudes are disgusting.

 

[cmogi10]

I don't think I was discrediting anyones work, the first photograph has a magical quizzical quality to it for me. It is not something I am usually drawn too but I will never rule it out completely.

I just wanted to chime in on teachers and students.

Appalling? Probably. I've never excelled in any sort classroom environment.

 

[unclescarMT]

while it isn't something I do often, I think it can work a little palette cleanser from time to time.

this one works, at least for me

 

[jenhao]

Dovi, awesome image. This works for me