kbg32
neo-romanticist
I've had both the CL and the CLE. Loved the CL but it would dent and scratch way too easily. The meter is a joke. Not robust at all. As for the CLE, you pays your money and takes your chances. If any of the electronics go, good luck in trying to get it repaired. Ms are much more robust than any CL/CLE. My Ms are over 35+ years old and going strong.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'd rather sell old M2 and get fresh Bessa with AE.
Have you seen M6 or Bessa with dead meter? I don't.
But I have sean enough Minoltas for sale with dead meters.
Scrambler
Well-known
I don't think you are certifiable. And that's my medical opinion.
On the other hand, I do hope you know what you want. If it's an AE camera that handles like an M Leica, then the Konica Hexar is the better choice. I own a Hexar and a CLE and I am sure of which one I would trade or sell. And it's not the Hexar.
The CLE has its charms. It's an M-mount point and shoot in many ways. Light, simple. It doesn't have the gravitas of a Leica or the Hexar. You chose your lenses with care and drop thoughts of ultra-shallow DOF.
Paleoboy is the person to talk to re repairs. His advice in the past seems to be that most repairs are impossible. And NOTHING under the hood is shared with the Minolta SLRs. BTW what I mean by "impossible " is that no one but Paleoboy has the parts or expertise and he doesn't repair.
There is or was a website dedicated to a complete CLE makeover with microcontroller programmed functioning.
Scrambler
Well-known
As a second thought, you are getting an M- Rokkor which may justify the CLE on its own.
Huss
Veteran
Why not? The CLE is set up with frame lines to use a 90mm lens and my Marco Elmar works perfectly with it.
Sure you can't use a Nokton 1.1 or Noctilux, as the girth of those lenses block the RF window. But that's ok..
FalseDigital
BKK -> Tokyo
Got a chance to borrow my friends CLE with the 40mm. The aperture priority exposure is some of the best I've ever used! I was blown away with how perfectly exposed my negatives were. I even used it in some strangely lit situations.
Use what you like. I think shooting mainly with a CLE ain't a bad idea at all!
Use what you like. I think shooting mainly with a CLE ain't a bad idea at all!
raytoei@gmail.com
Veteran
hey...at least you can get the m-rokkor 28mm lens really cheaply
ian_watts
Ian Watts
Scrambler
Well-known
I was giving myself an out with the Ultra. I have a Nikkor 85/f2 and it's a lottery wide open on the CLE.
Every camera has its genius. The lens I bought the CLE for is the Rollei 40mm/f2.8 Sonnar. It's a match made in heaven IMHO.
john_pears
Member
well the die is cast (as caeser definitely didn't say) my cle and rokkor lens came in the post today, guess buying a cle today is a very marmite kind of move. i think it will fit with what i want. id love a zeiss ikon but repair may become an issue just like for the cle and the m7 is way out of my price range as my m2 is a beater and my m6 has some weird frame line issue where it won't show the 90 frame lines. I'm on a holiday so hopefully will get to try out the cle and see what i think
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
I dont think its ever cut and dry that for every person one camera can be declared better than another. For me my journey was from a Leica M to a CLE. My M3 sat unloved on the shelf for many years. Most of the people here reflect personal preferences and that will pretty much decide for you too if a CLE is for you or not.
The main preference that most of the posts that favour an M6 arrangement miss one of the most important reasons for choosing one or the other and that is 40mm lenses. When I discovered the 40mm Summicron/Rokkors it was a revelation. It changed my ambivalence to a devoted love for the M Mount. I really dont have much affinity for 50mm lenses so to find something that little bit wider but not so wide as to distort portraits just hit the mark. I absolutely love the focal length and have almost every 40mm lens imaginable. So my love for CLE's started with a love for a 40mm focal length not the camera itself. The CLE became the natural progression being the best camera with 40mm framelines. The fact that 28mm was my next most widely used focal length made it more so. Its a question of how you prioritise features. Is the CLE as robust as an M, no it isnt. Does it have that same solid feel users often get a thrill from their Ms, no it doesnt. If you are a 50mm / 35mm lens devotee, and lets face it there are more fans of the 50 mm than the 40 then the CLE isnt going to be a camera that wins out because you will only look at the camera build quality to compare the two cameras and the lack of 50mm framelines in a CLE renders the argument null. However if you appreciate the 40mm focal lens, which for some wont use anything else then you would gladly give up a M6 for a CLE camera and lens combo. Lets not forget you did get that 40mm Rokkor in this deal so if your anything like me your M mount photography will only take off.
When I got into CLEs there were no M7s or Hexars so at the time it was the only AE M mount camera in town for a long long time.
The CLE has the best viewfinder for 28mm lenses till the Ikon came along. I prefer its compact size and its TTL flash. Its not designed for superfast lenses, having a compact camera to use with large fast lenses would be a bit at odds with keeping things small. Its horses for courses. Can a CLE be a better choice than an M6? Yes if those things that it offers is higher on your list of must haves. More often than not however an M6s features will tick all the right boxes for people.
You have the CLE in your hands now, try hold off parting with your M6 for as long as you can afford. Get a feel for the CLE and see if the camera and more importantly if the 40mm focal length is right for you.
The main preference that most of the posts that favour an M6 arrangement miss one of the most important reasons for choosing one or the other and that is 40mm lenses. When I discovered the 40mm Summicron/Rokkors it was a revelation. It changed my ambivalence to a devoted love for the M Mount. I really dont have much affinity for 50mm lenses so to find something that little bit wider but not so wide as to distort portraits just hit the mark. I absolutely love the focal length and have almost every 40mm lens imaginable. So my love for CLE's started with a love for a 40mm focal length not the camera itself. The CLE became the natural progression being the best camera with 40mm framelines. The fact that 28mm was my next most widely used focal length made it more so. Its a question of how you prioritise features. Is the CLE as robust as an M, no it isnt. Does it have that same solid feel users often get a thrill from their Ms, no it doesnt. If you are a 50mm / 35mm lens devotee, and lets face it there are more fans of the 50 mm than the 40 then the CLE isnt going to be a camera that wins out because you will only look at the camera build quality to compare the two cameras and the lack of 50mm framelines in a CLE renders the argument null. However if you appreciate the 40mm focal lens, which for some wont use anything else then you would gladly give up a M6 for a CLE camera and lens combo. Lets not forget you did get that 40mm Rokkor in this deal so if your anything like me your M mount photography will only take off.
When I got into CLEs there were no M7s or Hexars so at the time it was the only AE M mount camera in town for a long long time.
The CLE has the best viewfinder for 28mm lenses till the Ikon came along. I prefer its compact size and its TTL flash. Its not designed for superfast lenses, having a compact camera to use with large fast lenses would be a bit at odds with keeping things small. Its horses for courses. Can a CLE be a better choice than an M6? Yes if those things that it offers is higher on your list of must haves. More often than not however an M6s features will tick all the right boxes for people.
You have the CLE in your hands now, try hold off parting with your M6 for as long as you can afford. Get a feel for the CLE and see if the camera and more importantly if the 40mm focal length is right for you.
Huss
Veteran
Pardon the digression, but I have a few 40mm lenses. Do you have the Rollei 40mm 2.8? And if so have you experienced the wobbles? Mine seems to have come loose in the body (it will be sent to Youxin for repair), reminiscent of my ZM lenses.. I heard the Rollei 40 had CV construction.
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
Hi, Yes I have a nice black example of the Rollei 40mm. I actually keep a record of the Serial numbers of all the 40mm Rollei lenses that owners have private messaged me in trying to determine the actual production number of this particular lens.
The barrel used for this lens was borrowed from the Voigtander 50mm f2.5. This lens was one of best made of the early Voitlander lenses being all brass which shows in the lens' weight. Rollei did appear to paint theirs better than Voigtlander as the Voigtlander black paint was so thin you could see the brass through it as new and would wear off in the wind. The barrel quality on the 28 f3.5 and 50 f2.5 are superb though and Rollei were right to fall back on them rather than increase costs and make their own. Where Voitglander sometimes comes undone with a few of their lenses is that they develop loose or wobbly sections. I have never read anything definitive but I always felt that perhaps the tiny grub screws that Voigtlander used where not put in tight enough or were not affixed sufficiently with some locktite type material and the weight and turning of the barrel would cause these tiny screws to work loose. The original Voigtlander 35 f1.7 was notorious for this. Because however the Rollei lens was assembled in Germany I would have thought that this problem would have been eliminated but like yours I have heard of a couple of times this has happened with this lens as well although I have never seen one in person only heard about it through these pages. Maybe the screws themselves werent up to the job and came with the barrels supplied?
I understand the problem to be perfectly correctable and an easy task for any competent lens repair technician. We all have a screw loose that needs a bit of tightening up every now and then as they say. Its a terrific lens and a good investment as they seem to have doubled their value in just the past few years. Well worth the money to get it tightened up a bit. Its not a fast lens but im sure you love it, as I have never heard an owner that wasnt pleased with the results they got from it.
Huss
Veteran
Thanks Joel! Yup I'm going to get it taken care of.
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
Pleasure. Please private message your serial number and if its chrome or black. Would love to add it to my list if you have already done so.
Pete B
Well-known
I really disliked the cluttered viewfinder of the CLE. Sold it within a few weeks of buying it. Many are very keen on it though.
Pete
edinator
Member
Late to the party but I love my CLE. I have pretty huge hands and I didn't mind the size of it. But I recently got the grip that was made for it and makes the handling even better.
In my opinion, if you are looking for a camera to shoot on the street, this is probably the best rangefinder you can get. It is small and discrete, 40mm works great, usually you stop down so short rangefinder base length doesn't matter as much, accurate metering.
I have an M2 and I can't get over its size. If I'm shooting 35mm I want a small camera! The Hexar RF is the same, I really wanted to like it but it's even bigger than the M2. I probably have an odd obsession with having small rangefinders.
I think the CLE kinda gets a bad reputation because the CL wasn't that reliable. While the CLE is electronic, I really think people overestimate the reliability of the camera.
My complaints about the CLE? No metering during manual exposure (why!?). I prefer the shutter speed dial on the CL. Shutter speed dial locks when changing from aperture priority to manual, especially annoying since you'll have to switch between it if you want to meter. No shutter speed read out in the viewfinder (why?!)
I actually really like the CL but the one I have has a pretty bad viewfinder relative to the CL, the meter on mine doesn't work, and the slow shutter speeds are off. But honestly, it's probably just as reliable as the M5. People just don't want to spend $200 on a CLA of a $200 camera.
In my opinion, if you are looking for a camera to shoot on the street, this is probably the best rangefinder you can get. It is small and discrete, 40mm works great, usually you stop down so short rangefinder base length doesn't matter as much, accurate metering.
I have an M2 and I can't get over its size. If I'm shooting 35mm I want a small camera! The Hexar RF is the same, I really wanted to like it but it's even bigger than the M2. I probably have an odd obsession with having small rangefinders.
I think the CLE kinda gets a bad reputation because the CL wasn't that reliable. While the CLE is electronic, I really think people overestimate the reliability of the camera.
My complaints about the CLE? No metering during manual exposure (why!?). I prefer the shutter speed dial on the CL. Shutter speed dial locks when changing from aperture priority to manual, especially annoying since you'll have to switch between it if you want to meter. No shutter speed read out in the viewfinder (why?!)
I actually really like the CL but the one I have has a pretty bad viewfinder relative to the CL, the meter on mine doesn't work, and the slow shutter speeds are off. But honestly, it's probably just as reliable as the M5. People just don't want to spend $200 on a CLA of a $200 camera.
EVIL_Guy
Established
Same to me!
I switched from my M2 to Rolleiflex (6x6 TLR) and for daily use a CLE which is small and light.
Perfect combination!