Transit photography and security (was: I hope this doesn't ...)

[dmr]

I like to photograph trains. I would hope my innocent interest doesn't garner unwanted attention.

I'm not really a railfan but I do admit to being fascinated by railway, subway, el systems and the like. When I'm riding one or near one with a camera, I have this natural urge to capture the images.

Last fall in Chicago I had a free afternoon and was casually taking a few photos of some of the downtown subway stations. I was approached by a man wearing a yellow vest. He was obviously a maintenance person, not a station agent or security officer. He asked if I was a Transit Authority photographer, and I told him no. He said that you are not supposed to be taking pictures down here, so I just capped the lens, apologized, and moved on (to the next station and continued). 🙂

When I got home, I checked, and located the customer service bulletin, which was POST-911, which did say that "casual tourist photos" WERE permitted on the CTA, so I know I wasn't actually violating anything.

A couple months later I was in Las Vegas and had a free afternoon, so I decided to ride (and photograph, of course) the new Monorail system. I took a few rolls, and in one case I even pointed the camera toward one of their security officers, who then smiled and snapped to attention as I snapped him. 🙂 I thanked him and went on my way.

At one station down the line, it turned out that there were 3 of us with cameras waiting for one train to pull out of a station. Me (with Olympus Stylus), a younger guy with a video camera, and an older guy with a SLR with a long zoom. The older guy said that he was confronted by a guard at the last station and told to not take photos. "He meant business, mentioned FBI and Homeland Security." I then mentioned that I had actually taken a photo of one of the guards.

Anyway, it's obvious here that the security people are not at all consistent and probably are just doing the enforcement on the fly if they feel like it.

I would think that there would be some "no photography" signs or maybe a circle-slash-camera icon if it really were prohibited ... anyway ...

Perhaps a new genre of social art could form as a result- seriptitious photography.. Oh, wait... cell phone cams. Not much of a leap from dorks taking photos up women's skirts to a photo from a cell phone during a Pentagon tour. 😉

There is currently a proposed regulation to ban photography in the NYC subway. If this goes into effect, all photos from that time on will be just that.

If anybody cares, I'm attaching a couple photos here from the Chicago shoot and the Las Vegas shoot. (Now that I know how to attach on this board.) 🙂

If anybody wants to see more of these, they are on line at:

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/lasvegas/

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/chicago/

My Chicago shots from a few different shoots are sprinkled thru the Red and Blue line sections. I was also the one who wrote up most of the copy for their Las Vegas page.

Anyway, I hope the powers that be will regain a sense of sanity regarding rail and transit photography.

 

[bmattock]

Took recent photos all over the Boston MTA and Boston Amtrak and Washington Amtrak and Penn Station - no problems at all! No one asked me a thing, and I look fairly shady. Of course, I also wear t-shirts that say "Briefs [] Boxers [] Commando [X]".

Best Regards,

Bill "Out There and Lovin' It" Mattocks

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

dmr436-- thanks for bringing it back to what the forum is all about- Photography.

My son and I enjoy trains in a small way. It all started when he was 2 and I was able relive one of the things I liked as a child.

He is 12 now and I like to take photos of trains and trolleys as well as cars to share with him now that we live in seperate cities.

My avatar is a shot from Downtown San Diego at the Santa Fe station were you can stand next to the tracks and get a shot. (from my G2, I am new to rangefinders so I don't have one from my bessa or FED 2 yet) I found myself wondering why I am able to get so close. The authorities here seem much more relaxed.

 

[jan normandale]

My curiosity is piqued by the size of the camera. It seems that the larger the camera the more likely to attract negative attention. Currently cell phone cameras are snapping shots everywhere. Security? It isn’t on the radar.

The point is it’s all a crock. The ‘bad guys’ who ever they may be will never be as conspicuous as an amateur. Finally many records already exist in the public domain as postcards, photo libraries, local newspapers, and professional journals. So this whole issue of photography and security is a red herring. All the photos are already in existence.

There have been previous posts on this topic. All of them have a similar thread. Security people are ‘enforcing’ things on the fly and invoke a lot of code words with an implication of ‘national or internal security’. Most times this is contestable however few have time, so by default the photographer walks away.

What’s the driver? Who knows? Probably a self feeding loop of institutionalized government regulatory paranoia, coupled with enthusiastic overachievers genuinely believing they are ‘on the job’. Publicly; over kill is never viewed as a bad thing.

 

[dmr]

My curiosity is piqued by the size of the camera. It seems that the larger the camera the more likely to attract negative attention. Currently cell phone cameras are snapping shots everywhere. Security? It isn’t on the radar.

I do believe it's the size or the conspicuousness of the camera that's one factor as to whether you will be confronted. In the first message of this thread, the guy who was warned about it had a fairly conspicuous grenade-launcher type zoom lens on a SLR. I only had the Olympus point-and-shoot which was much smaller and looked like only a tourist type camera. As I said, one guard willingly posed for me, but I didn't include that shot on the page since I didn't want to get him in trouble in case he was obviously ignoring the rules. I did shoot a few shots on the Monorail on my last trip (yes, using the rangefinder) and nobody said anything.

Policy and enforcement seems to be arbitrary and inconsistent no matter where it is. As another example, I was able to get into the new Wynn casino on opening night. As I often do in casinos, I ask either a guard or a "suit" what their photo policy is, since they vary quite a bit from place to place. This was a kid who was maybe 22 at most, and his reply was a very curt "same as all casinos" and nothing else. I asked him what he meant, and he repeated "same as all casinos, no gaming photos, everything else is ok." I told him that is not what all casinos had as a policy (I make a habit of asking before I shoot - I am collecting quite a list if anybody cares) and he responded "oh yes it is" in a very know-it-all tone.

Oh well. 🙂