Tree on El Camino Real - Leica IIIc + SMC-Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Special

[Godfrey]

Another one from my walk with this lens:


Tree On El Camino Real - Santa Clara 2024
Leica IIIc + SMC-Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Special
Fujifilm ACROS 100

This exposure made at about f/8, IIRC.

It really is a lovely lens, I wish it fit the IIIc a little better. But it will continue to live as my standard lens on the M4-2.

G

 

[boojum]

The tree looks like Acer palmatum, Japanese Maple. The lens is interesting as IIRC 43mm is our natural field of view. How do you like it? Have you shot color with it? What's wrong with the fit?? It is supposed to be LTM and I wonder if Pentax would screw that up.

 

[Godfrey]

LOL! I'm a photographer, not a botanist... To my abstractive way of looking at things, it's a tree. But thank you for the species—yes, I believe it is a Japanese Maple. 😉

The "natural normal" lens for any format is a focal length approximately the same as the format diagonal, which for 35mm is ~43.3 mm. The notion is that the field of view of a lens defined like this produces photographs with a natural perspective and feel (that is, the relationships between objects at different distances in the 2D projection of the lens is very similar to that of human vision), but it's not the same as the human field of view, which is a lot wider (two healthy human eyes together provide nearly 180° field of view, overlapping about 120-130° of that for our binocular vision). The "natural field of view" is, I'm sure, why Pentax chose to make one of their premium, Limited series lenses in this focal length.

I first started using the Pentax 43mm lens in its SMC-Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Limited form, designed for the Pentax 35mm SLR cameras. It was without a doubt my favorite Pentax lens of all, and enough other people felt the same about it that Pentax was persuaded to produce a limited run of them in rangefinder-coupled, Leica 39mm threaded mounts along with 43mm optical viewfinders to use with them. About 2200 were produced, about half black like mine, the others in silver finish. I was lucky enough to find a clean example of one of these Specials at a reasonable price about a decade and a half ago, and I've used it on a number of digital and film cameras since. It is a marvelous and versatile lens, fast yet light and reasonably compact, with a lovely imaging signature. (Yes, I've made a lot of color photographs with it, but since I only shoot B&W film since the early 2000s, nearly all the photographs I've made with it in the past 6-8 years have been B&W since it's become my standard lens on the M4-2 body.)

The Leica IIIc camera body is rather small and the built-in viewfinder (which has a field of view that is a little wider than 50mm and a little tighter than 35mm, and thus nearly perfect for a 43mm lens) is so close to the edge of the lens mount that the Pentax 43mm occludes about 45% of the viewfinder frame. This is not a problem if you have an accessory 43mm (or 35mm) viewfinder, but I was hoping to use the built-in viewfinder so as to keep the camera smaller and also fit a small light meter into the accessory shoe instead of a viewfinder. The Pentax 43mm is also a bit larger diameter, physically, than the typical Leica LTM lenses (like the Elmar 5.0cm and 3.5cm, and to my fingers it feels a little odd on the small body of the IIIc. These are minor considerations and wouldn't stop me from using it if I so desire, but I find it more natural in feel when used on a Leica M body, which is taller and has much more separation between the viewfinder and the lens, optically. That's all.

It is a wonderful lens and well worth the usual asking prices of about $1200 or so that are more commonly seen. I managed to find this one, sans original box and optical viewfinder, for about $700, and I jumped for it. It is one of the jewels in my lens kit. 🙂

G

 

[agentlossing]

Pentax 43/1.9 Limited

The 43mm FA LTD lens in the K-mount SLR world is delightful. I have had the 31 LTD for a while now, but finally followed it up with the 43 LTD. Both in silver, of course.

I think (though I don't have data to back it up) that the 43mm "Special" lens for LTM uses the same optical design as the SLR lens, thus the lens needs to be larger in order to keep the optics the same distance from the film plane as they would be on a K-mount camera with its mirror box. Presumably, a 43mm f1.9 lens designed from the ground up for LTM could be smaller, maybe more akin to the 40mm f2.8 Heliar... though that's just my guess. It would be a different optical formula so who's to say just what size it would need to be? Certainly not me.

On the Pentax SLRs/DSLRs, the 43 LTD is an admirably small lens. Maybe pushing the limits of "pancake" just a bit, but surprisingly small and light for what it is, especially given the great build quality.

 

[boojum]

LOL! I'm a photographer, not a botanist... To my abstractive way of looking at things, it's a tree. But thank you for the species—yes, I believe it is a Japanese Maple. 😉

The "natural normal" lens for any format is a focal length approximately the same as the format diagonal, which for 35mm is ~43.3 mm. The notion is that the field of view of a lens defined like this produces photographs with a natural perspective and feel (that is, the relationships between objects at different distances in the 2D projection of the lens is very similar to that of human vision), but it's not the same as the human field of view, which is a lot wider (two healthy human eyes together provide nearly 180° field of view, overlapping about 120-130° of that for our binocular vision). The "natural field of view" is, I'm sure, why Pentax chose to make one of their premium, Limited series lenses in this focal length.

I first started using the Pentax 43mm lens in its SMC-Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Limited form, designed for the Pentax 35mm SLR cameras. It was without a doubt my favorite Pentax lens of all, and enough other people felt the same about it that Pentax was persuaded to produce a limited run of them in rangefinder-coupled, Leica 39mm threaded mounts along with 43mm optical viewfinders to use with them. About 2200 were produced, about half black like mine, the others in silver finish. I was lucky enough to find a clean example of one of these Specials at a reasonable price about a decade and a half ago, and I've used it on a number of digital and film cameras since. It is a marvelous and versatile lens, fast yet light and reasonably compact, with a lovely imaging signature. (Yes, I've made a lot of color photographs with it, but since I only shoot B&W film since the early 2000s, nearly all the photographs I've made with it in the past 6-8 years have been B&W since it's become my standard lens on the M4-2 body.)

The Leica IIIc camera body is rather small and the built-in viewfinder (which has a field of view that is a little wider than 50mm and a little tighter than 35mm, and thus nearly perfect for a 43mm lens) is so close to the edge of the lens mount that the Pentax 43mm occludes about 45% of the viewfinder frame. This is not a problem if you have an accessory 43mm (or 35mm) viewfinder, but I was hoping to use the built-in viewfinder so as to keep the camera smaller and also fit a small light meter into the accessory shoe instead of a viewfinder. The Pentax 43mm is also a bit larger diameter, physically, than the typical Leica LTM lenses (like the Elmar 5.0cm and 3.5cm, and to my fingers it feels a little odd on the small body of the IIIc. These are minor considerations and wouldn't stop me from using it if I so desire, but I find it more natural in feel when used on a Leica M body, which is taller and has much more separation between the viewfinder and the lens, optically. That's all.

It is a wonderful lens and well worth the usual asking prices of about $1200 or so that are more commonly seen. I managed to find this one, sans original box and optical viewfinder, for about $700, and I jumped for it. It is one of the jewels in my lens kit. 🙂

G

Thanks

 

[Godfrey]

Pentax 43/1.9 Limited

The 43mm FA LTD lens in the K-mount SLR world is delightful. I have had the 31 LTD for a while now, but finally followed it up with the 43 LTD. Both in silver, of course.

I think (though I don't have data to back it up) that the 43mm "Special" lens for LTM uses the same optical design as the SLR lens, thus the lens needs to be larger in order to keep the optics the same distance from the film plane as they would be on a K-mount camera with its mirror box. Presumably, a 43mm f1.9 lens designed from the ground up for LTM could be smaller, maybe more akin to the 40mm f2.8 Heliar... though that's just my guess. It would be a different optical formula so who's to say just what size it would need to be? Certainly not me.

On the Pentax SLRs/DSLRs, the 43 LTD is an admirably small lens. Maybe pushing the limits of "pancake" just a bit, but surprisingly small and light for what it is, especially given the great build quality.

The 43mm Special in LTM mount is optically *identical* to the 43mm Limited in K-mount and renders exactly the same ... That's the magic of it! Pentax just changed the lens mount for the Special run, not the optical design. As a result, it is a bit bulkier in LTM form than it is in SLR form... Here it is fitted to the Leica M4-2:

Leica M4-2 fitted with Pentax 43mm Special​

You can see that it is a bit greater in diameter and a bit longer than in SLR mount.

The biggest difference (other than RF coupling) between the Limited and the Special is that the latter has an utterly smooth and precise manual focus feel ... the Limited is designed for the Pentax K-mount AF 'screw drive' and its manual focusing feel is a bit too quick, light, and loose feeling, which is why I didn't like it so much when adapted to other cameras. The Limited is magic on the Pentax SLRs, however.

G

 

[boojum]

OK, good info. Thanks. I need one like a hog needs roller skates but that never damps GAS.

 

[Godfrey]

OK, good info. Thanks. I need one like a hog needs roller skates but that never damps GAS.

Good news is that a quick hunt on Ebay showed about six-eight of them available, three of them (just barely) under $1000. All from Japanese sellers, I think ... I believe that the vast, vast majority of these lenses were sold in Japan.

G

 

[Doug]

My notes on the SMC PENTAX-L 43mm F1.9 Special for Leica Screw mount. I also have the lens in Pentax K bayonet mount, plus the 31mm and 77mm companions. Seller supplied a Leica 50/75 screw-bayonet mount adapter and soft pouch, and paid postage. Mailed him a cashier's check but received the lens well before he got the check in Calgary Alberta Canada. Deal began with seller's comment on Rangefinder Forum.

The lens couples to the rangefinder. As new condition. Glass clean and clear. Works very smooth. Very rare; only 2000 of these (800 silver, 1200 black) were made. The retail price in Japan was 150.000yen, around $1385 at the time. This kit includes; 1)Lens (black, shade is built in) 2)Finder (for 43mm&50mm) 3)Both caps 4)Box for finder.

In the 35mm format the ideal definition of a "standard" lens is 43mm, the distance from the corner to corner on a 24x36mm frame of 35mm film.
6 groups, 7 elements; half-stops to f/16 with 9 diaphragm blades. Surprisingly longer than the 40mm M-Rokkor. It is 47.8mm long at infinity with the screw-mount adapter in place. Features a focus tab!

Subjective Evaluation (of the SLR version)
The FA 43/1.9 Limited provides decently high resolution at f/2.8 and is fantastic from f/4 to f/11. Amateur Photographer made this lens their reference normal lens, and magazines like Outdoor Photography and FotoMagazin agree that it is a very sharp and contrasty lens, practically free of flare, with slight barrel distortion. What makes this lens so special is its focal length (most users prefer it over a 50 mm lens) and its bokeh — exceptionally smooth and pleasing at all apertures, rendering light sources at night especially beautiful, and making pictures seem very natural and "3-dimensional."
Pentax claims that the Limited lenses are designed to offer the very best optical and mechanical quality possible at the widest possible maximum aperture combined with a small size. Production is to be limited not by the number of units built but by the high demands of production process and quality control.
I found that it WILL flare if pointed near a bright sky/sun, and the barrel distortion is clearly notable.

 

[agentlossing]

I found that it WILL flare if pointed near a bright sky/sun, and the barrel distortion is clearly notable.

My Pentax version is the newer HD lens coating, which has noticeably less flare than the SMC version, but I imagine it could still happen. I haven't had enough experience with it yet to know for sure. I've been impressed by how little flare the HD 31 LTD has shown.

 

[boojum]

The price difference between K and M mount makes K mount a bargain and adapters are cheap. Hmmm.

 

[Godfrey]

The price difference between K and M mount makes K mount a bargain and adapters are cheap. Hmmm.

... yes, but you give up rangefinder focusing and the smooth, precise manual focusing. It's a significant trade off. In essence, if you want this focal length for your Leica rf camera and you don't want to spend the price of the Pentax 43 Special, the Voigtländer 40mm choices and the Leica Summicron-C 40/Minolta Rokkor-M 40 are better choices ... That's my opinion, anyway, having used all of these lenses quite a lot.

G

 

[raid]

I agree with Godfrey's comment above.

 

[agentlossing]

I agree as well.

The Limited lenses are just a great reason for owning a K-mount kit in addition to your Leica mount kit(s). Not that the cost of the LTM 43mm Special is outside the "normal" range for Leica mount lenses, though...

 

[boojum]

I have the CV 40mm f/1.2 and like it a lot. It marries well with my M-240. OK, I think it marries well with the M-240, you may think it looks like crap. But it is my gear and if it makes me happy, well. that's important. ;o) I think it gives a good image without being to sharp and too contrasty.

My current problem is whether 3 degrees is worth a thousand dollars to me.

 

[raid]

If you sell the CV 40/1.2 and then get the 43mm Pentax-L, the cost difference is not large. 🙂

 

[boojum]

If you sell the CV 40/1.2 and then get the 43mm Pentax-L, the cost difference is not large. 🙂

It is not so much the cost as the cost-benefit ratio. At the end up would I have that much more than I have now in the 40mm CV f/1.2? Yes, yes, let us assume that there is a difference between the two which is more than just noticeable. But we are now into a very subjective grey area in image judging. Much of that is opinion as much as fact.

A few years back I bought a very nice M-240 for an old friend who has been a photographer since I met him in '67. But he has an allergy to money, I guess, so had no camera. I asked what lens he would like on it and he asked for the 40mm CV. So I sent both on to him. A few months later I got them back. He does not like RF cameras, I guess. But I kind of like what they do together. The CV will pump colors a bit and the M-240 is more muted than the M9 so they do marry well.

Taking the Pentax 43mm Special into account I see a retro lens that might not pump colors as much which means it would not possibly be as good an M-240 partner. Godfrey has some nice mono images and they are persuasive. I don't shoot mono.

So the question now is do I need another lens or do I need talent? Take all the time you need. LMAO

I post this only as an example of how the CV 40mm sees things when it is hung on the front of an M-240 set to "Standard" across the board. It reproduces better on Flickr.

M2419899 M240 + CV 40mm f/1.2 ASPH Nokton by West Phalia, on Flickr​

 

[Godfrey]

@boojum ... Obviously, you've never looked through my portfolio or my flickr.com site. I don't shoot color film any more. I still make lots of color photographs. And this thread is dedicated to a particular photograph I made with the Leica IIIc and Pentax 43mm on B&W film.

The Pentax 43mm Limited, whether in original SLR mount or in Leica L39 mount, makes beautiful color photos:


California Poppy - Sunnyvale 2007
SMC-Pentax-L FA43mm f/1.9 Limited

It is, for me, one of Pentax all-time best lenses, and my favorite Pentax lens. It's the only one I've kept. I wouldn't say that if I could only make monochrome photographs with it.

G

 

[boojum]

I am not arguing that the lens does not make beautiful images. My question is the amount of value in a change from the 40 to the 43. It breaks out as 1) is the 43mm focal length magic or necessary and 2) whether or not the 50's I now have can do just as well but at a slightly different focal length.

And then there is the X2D with its XCD 55V which is a very nice lens. The XCD 55V works out to about an equivalent 43mm and in addition it is just a really nice lens in front of a really nice sensor. Maybe a retail solution to better photos is not what I should be chasing.

 

[agentlossing]

The 43mm focal length is not radically different from the 40mm at all. They're not exactly alike but they make the same kind of pictures. I wouldn't buy it to keep with a 40 in terms of focal length - the reason to keep both would be if they produced different enough rendering to justify both as tools in your toolbox.