Trek's interesting concept: usable for cameras ?

[ruben]

I am daily riding bicycles since I was around 12. A month ago I bought a new one from Trek trademark. After reading the very intersting manual I find a new for me quasi revolutionary mechanical concept: not only every mooving part of the bike should be oiled, but also every fixed screw should be oiled as well.

The logics say me that if I oil any screw of my used cameras, this screw is going to loosen up. If I am mistaken I may loose a camera, if Trek is mistaken I may loose my life on the road.

But I believe there is a different logic in Trek's concept, at least for cameras if not for bikes. Think about the screws of your old camera. Whenever you remove them they appear oxhydated at their ends. The holes must be oxhydated as well. Screwing the dry screws back may damage to some extent the hole and the screw altoghether. Perhaps oil doesn't facilitate the circular movemement out of the hole without a specific circular movement of the screw driver.

What do you think ?

Cheers,

Ruben

 

[ch1]

I NEVER use oil on any of my bicycles! Oil (and grease) attract grit and dirt which wears down moving parts.

I use synthetic lubricants (liquid that "dries" to a waxy-like lubricant) as do most serious cyclists!

 

[amateriat]

One word: beeswax (camera and bike screws):

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/miscellaneous/31002.html


- Barrett

 

[ruben]

I NEVER use oil on any of my bicycles! Oil (and grease) attract grit and dirt which wears down moving parts.

I use synthetic lubricants (liquid that "dries" to a waxy-like lubricant) as do most serious cyclists!

Hi friendly copake ham,
I know there is the opposite school about the dry cycling. What you say is true: oil attracts grit and dirt indeed, and for this reason I and all others from the bike oiling school have to clean grit and dirt from time to time and presto.

I do respect your school, but now with this Trek manual regarding ALL of their bycicles I have found a retrospective authoritative explicit backing of my old use of oiling every moving part, with an extended interesting mechanical idea, regarded non moving pressed screws.

This reminds me that strangely there are also two opposite schools regarding how to best maintain your Windows computer. There are those who claim for weekly drive checking and defragmentation, those who claim to "never do it". And there are high experts on both sides !

The real interesting idea for us in the RFF is about oiling non-moving pressed parts of our cameras, which has a logic of itself, to be analysed with cold blood on behalf of all of us.

Although I know something, I am no big shot in cameras, nor bikes, not nothing, and dream to arise every day of life with the same curiousity as if it was my first.

Cheers,

Ruben

 

[pbjbike]

If you ride year round in the Northeast U.S. or similar climes, than you would want to keep every separate nut and bolt coated with your favorite oil, grease, synthetic, etc., or serious rust and corrosion will occur. A little shot with a spray can then a quick wipe with a cloth will suffice for most pivot points--brakes, deraileurs, etc. Headset, bottom bracket, hubs should be repacked every 5,000 miles or so unless you ride in the rain a lot, then more frequently. I've found that the non-dry chain lubricants work better in snow/slush/rain, than the "dry" lubes. Keep your seatpost lightly greased in any clime, especially with newer frame materials.

 

[KoNickon]

George, I was always taught that you want to put grease (like Campagnolo lithium grease) on the threads of anything you're tightening down -- such as the bottom bracket cups, pedal threads, or the seatpost bolt -- in order to make sure the metal surfaces don't corrode and fuse together. I agree that moving parts, such as the bicycle chain, are much better served by a synthetic lubricant. (Good old paraffin is great for chains.)

But to Ruben's question about fixed screws, bicycles are exposed to the weather a lot more than cameras are, so there's a need for lubrication. I would not advise lubricating camera screws, simply because there is much less chance of rust on those parts Also, with the fixed screws on a bike, they can be tightened enough so as to overcome the possibility that the lubricant can cause the screws to loosen. Camera screws are too small and delicate to tighten to that degree. And finally, any camera repair book will tell you that lubrication of camera parts is, with rare exceptions, a Bad Idea, and so you want to avoid oil or grease migrating to places it's not welcome.

 

[pbjbike]

Sherry uses 12 different lubricants during a CLA, each for a specific purpose. Paraffin on a chain is OK, but if you put on a lot of miles 😉, it's not practical IMO.

 

[Andy K]

I always grease screws and bolts, it prevents them seizing up. As for chains, why not just get rid of the chain...

 

[bcs89]

"Although I know something, I am no big shot in cameras, nor bikes, not nothing, and dream to arise every day of life with the same curiousity as if it was my first."


Your enthusiasm and un-jaded point of view is refreshing Ruben. I always enjoy your post's - though they take forever to read due to your avatar - I keep losing my place in the text as my eyes are drawn back to it again and again! 😛

 

[ruben]

I would not advise lubricating camera screws, simply because there is much less chance of rust on those parts Also, with the fixed screws on a bike, they can be tightened enough so as to overcome the possibility that the lubricant can cause the screws to loosen. Camera screws are too small and delicate to tighten to that degree. And finally, any camera repair book will tell you that lubrication of camera parts is, with rare exceptions, a Bad Idea, and so you want to avoid oil or grease migrating to places it's not welcome.

Ok KoNickon, you are pouring some interesting ideas here. Let's check them to fine grain.

a) My bottom line is that I am deducting from Trek, that the design of a screw makes it to stay fixed by the circular channels through which it is screwed, plus the specific pressure force. Meaning that a) the best fitting between the screw and hole will make the best fixation, and oil will help that best fitting.

b) This line of thinking implyies that without oil, bumps will slightly break or corrode and degenarate that best fitting, resulting in screw loosening.

c) As for cameras screws and gears, we are talking about the older ones, 15 years and more. In general I will not make any surgery with those cameras until a problem arises. But if we have had to dismantle a part of a camera, perhaps it will help and not damage carefully oiling corroded screws.

d) As for traditional advice about the danger of oil going to undesired parts, it is like you were advising not to cross a weak bridge for the danger implyied. If you are in front of such a bridge you have to make up your mind: is there any necessity to cross it or not ? If there is, I would first check the bridge very carefully and then cross it. But not avoiding crossing it for pure fear.

I pass you back the microphone.

Ruben

 

[ruben]

"Although I know something, I am no big shot in cameras, nor bikes, not nothing, and dream to arise every day of life with the same curiousity as if it was my first."


Your enthusiasm and un-jaded point of view is refreshing Ruben. I always enjoy your post's - though they take forever to read due to your avatar - I keep losing my place in the text as my eyes are drawn back to it again and again! 😛

It was Jocko who invented the advertizing concept !!!

 

[pbjbike]

Andy, thanks for the link, I will check out their products. Shaft drive bicyles were very popular aorund the turn of the century, (early 1900's). Chain drive is more efficient and offers almost infinite gearing combinations with the use of deraiileurs and cog/chainring selection. New materials and manufacturing may close the efficiency gap of shaft drive.

 

[Jocko]

It was Jocko who invented the advertizing concept !!!

I was merely the daffodil to Ruben's Wordsworth - His work is vastly greater than the inspiration!

 

[cbass]

Hi Ruben,

As others have stated, applying tiny amounts of lubricant to bicycle bolts will keep them from corroding and siezing up. However, when using any lubricant you need to consider the climate and conditions in which that lubricant will be expected to function.

I've never been to Jerusalem, but if it is a dry and dusty environment then you will want to be very careful applying lubricants to your bicycle (or your camera!). Heat causes lubricants to lose viscosity and they can migrate out of the area in which you applied them. Also, most external lubricants will attract dust like iron filings to a magnet, turning the lubricated surface into a gritty mess in a matter of days.

If I lived in a hot and dry place I wouldn't put any additional lubricants anywhere on my camera unless the service manual said to do so. And then, I would only use a tiny amount. A bicycle can still be ridden if it's covered in dust but it only takes a tiny amount of grit to ruin a camera's delicate mechanisms.

 

[ruben]

I was merely the daffodil to Ruben's Wordsworth - His work is vastly greater than the inspiration!

Nah..., I just took advantage of Mrs Hallie Berry and Zeiss pre WW2 engineers.

 

[pbjbike]

There are corrosion issues specific to aluminum and carbon bikes, (and a combination of the two materials as with Trek), that makes it of paramount importance to lubricate each screw/bolt/nut that contacts the frame.

 

[Jocko]

Nah..., I just took advantage of Mrs Hallie Berry and Zeiss pre WW2 engineers.

What a wonderful thought! 😀

 

[ruben]

Hi Ruben,

As others have stated, applying tiny amounts of lubricant to bicycle bolts will keep them from corroding and siezing up. However, when using any lubricant you need to consider the climate and conditions in which that lubricant will be expected to function.

I've never been to Jerusalem, but if it is a dry and dusty environment then you will want to be very careful applying lubricants to your bicycle (or your camera!). Heat causes lubricants to lose viscosity and they can migrate out of the area in which you applied them. Also, most external lubricants will attract dust like iron filings to a magnet, turning the lubricated surface into a gritty mess in a matter of days.

If I lived in a hot and dry place I wouldn't put any additional lubricants anywhere on my camera unless the service manual said to do so. And then, I would only use a tiny amount. A bicycle can still be ridden if it's covered in dust but it only takes a tiny amount of grit to ruin a camera's delicate mechanisms.

a) Yes, here in Jerusalem it is hot dry and very dusty. But we are talking about the privileges of being pocket poor. It is a $500 bike on one side and the extreme improvement of city riding a bike with a well oiled chain. My few decades experience in city riding tells me loudly that mechanically it depends upon 2 elements: a) oiled chain, b) well inflated tyres. Besides of being dry and dusty, Jerusalem is a hill city. Either oil or muerte.

b) As for cameras, what I have in front of me are my FSU ones, and my beloved Kievs first and foremost. They are built as tanks, could they perform as silk ? (a recent experiment with two of them tell me yes!, but time will speak about oil migration. With my Japanese RFs, I don't dare to go beyond cleaning the interior RF mirrors and glasses. But my OM slrs' winding handles, including a relatively new from factory 4Ti, are loudly begging for oil without doubt, and I know I must abstain of removing a single screw.

c) It is not about becomming oil-happy. It is about fearless analyzing and trying a new concept, to improve our valuable but cheap equipment. Obviously we are not going to experiment and test any $1000 body.

Cheers,

Ruben

 

[Nick R.]

The proper torque rating of a bolt depends on the coefficient of friction between the bolt and the mating surface. Changing the C of F can change the torque required to properely tighten a screw or bolt significantly. If a manufacturer says to tighten a fastener while lubricated with oil, grease, graphite, or nothing, you should follow those instructions without interchanging one for the other.

 

[Pherdinand]

"how to best maintain your Windows computer."
That's a paradox.