guoshuo
Established
I've heard people fix tri-x in rapid fixer for 8-10mins and that's what I did for the last year. However, I did a test weeks ago with the same working solution, it takes 2mins to make a exposed negative to be transparent at 21 degree c. Follow the instruction, total 5mins should be more than enough. So in the following months I just fix 5mins, can't see any difference. what is going on here?
Ljós
Well-known
Hi, yes, you are on the right track with your observation. Depending on the fixer used and the dilution strength, fixing times of 5 minutes (even shorter) can be totally sufficient. However, going for 8 minutes won't do any harm, just take longer.
Personally, I use Ilford Rapid fixer diluted 1+4. Hp5 clears in about 30 seconds in this brew. Theoretically I could fix for a tad more than a minute and do allright. I use two-bath fixing and fix for a total of 3-4 minutes, so a safety factor built in.
My advice: yes, watch your clearing time, double the time and add a safety factor you can live with. Enjoy shorter overall processing times!
Greetings, Ljós
Personally, I use Ilford Rapid fixer diluted 1+4. Hp5 clears in about 30 seconds in this brew. Theoretically I could fix for a tad more than a minute and do allright. I use two-bath fixing and fix for a total of 3-4 minutes, so a safety factor built in.
My advice: yes, watch your clearing time, double the time and add a safety factor you can live with. Enjoy shorter overall processing times!
Greetings, Ljós
john341
camera user
Fixer times
Fixer times
I have been using Ilford Rapid Fixer diluted 1 + 3. The label describes the fixer as a paper and film fixer but the instructions only give fixing times ( circa 1 minute) for paper. I have been fixing for around 10 minutes and find negatives of Lucky 120 film which I like, have survived without fogging. Fifteen minutes seems like over-cooking the negatives, in my opinion....perhaps it goes back to the "hypo" fixing days and the times haven't been challenged...
Fixer times
I have been using Ilford Rapid Fixer diluted 1 + 3. The label describes the fixer as a paper and film fixer but the instructions only give fixing times ( circa 1 minute) for paper. I have been fixing for around 10 minutes and find negatives of Lucky 120 film which I like, have survived without fogging. Fifteen minutes seems like over-cooking the negatives, in my opinion....perhaps it goes back to the "hypo" fixing days
and the times haven't been challenged...I have been using Ilford Rapid Fixer diluted 1 + 3. The label describes the fixer as a paper and film fixer but the instructions only give fixing times ( circa 1 minute) for paper. I have been fixing for around 10 minutes and find negatives of Lucky 120 film which I like, have survived without fogging. Fifteen minutes seems like over-cooking the negatives, in my opinion....perhaps it goes back to the "hypo" fixing days
From Ilford's Technical data sheet for their Rapid Fixer:
For all film fixing applications ILFORD RAPID FIXER
is diluted 1+4 with water.
You'll find it here
Regards,
Brett
21-135 Apo All Good
Established
2.5 times the clearing time and you're good, so your 5 minutes is perfect!
A brief history lesson of what Newspaper Photogs did:
Back in the "Old Days", if we were on a "Deadline" and there was a "hole" left on page one for a photo, we souped the film in Ethol 90 which gave us a printable neg when the film was developed for 1 min. & 5 sec. (65 seconds) at ASA 400. 1 1/2 min. (additional 25 sec.) and you pushed the film an entire Stop! At the 5 sec. mark of the Gra-Lab Timer, we'd pour-out the Ethol-90, give the film a water rinse with a hose, open the tank in room light to check the pink film and dunk the 35mm reel into a 4x5 cut film tank with floating lid filled with strong Rapid Fixer. Wait 20 seconds, remove lid & stick hand into super-radid fix and agitate the reel by shaking it inside the cut film tank for 10 seconds.
Look at the negs by eye, select a neg and print in wet in an Omega D series Enlarger with the fixer still on it. After the wet 8x10 printed on SW Kodabromide F surface graded paper was turned-in at the City Desk, we'd go back and finish fixing the film for a half a minute, then washing & drying as normal.
The Newspaper used to buy Kodak Rapid Fixer & Hardener in 5-gal. cubitainers and have rubber hoses attached to them to make fixing baths. We used to mix the Fixer at 2X the normal strength. As long as you washed the film really well, those negs are still around!
So the moral to the story is you can get away with a lot of stuff when it comes to customizing your processing techniques, depending upon what the final result has to be. In the above example, I had Presses waiting for a photo for Page One, so the golf-ball sized grain didn't matter. A 65-line screen for a letter-press newspaper broke-up the grain anyway!
Sorry for the overly-long story. I just wanted to put my answer into the proper context.
Dave
A brief history lesson of what Newspaper Photogs did:
Back in the "Old Days", if we were on a "Deadline" and there was a "hole" left on page one for a photo, we souped the film in Ethol 90 which gave us a printable neg when the film was developed for 1 min. & 5 sec. (65 seconds) at ASA 400. 1 1/2 min. (additional 25 sec.) and you pushed the film an entire Stop! At the 5 sec. mark of the Gra-Lab Timer, we'd pour-out the Ethol-90, give the film a water rinse with a hose, open the tank in room light to check the pink film and dunk the 35mm reel into a 4x5 cut film tank with floating lid filled with strong Rapid Fixer. Wait 20 seconds, remove lid & stick hand into super-radid fix and agitate the reel by shaking it inside the cut film tank for 10 seconds.
Look at the negs by eye, select a neg and print in wet in an Omega D series Enlarger with the fixer still on it. After the wet 8x10 printed on SW Kodabromide F surface graded paper was turned-in at the City Desk, we'd go back and finish fixing the film for a half a minute, then washing & drying as normal.
The Newspaper used to buy Kodak Rapid Fixer & Hardener in 5-gal. cubitainers and have rubber hoses attached to them to make fixing baths. We used to mix the Fixer at 2X the normal strength. As long as you washed the film really well, those negs are still around!
So the moral to the story is you can get away with a lot of stuff when it comes to customizing your processing techniques, depending upon what the final result has to be. In the above example, I had Presses waiting for a photo for Page One, so the golf-ball sized grain didn't matter. A 65-line screen for a letter-press newspaper broke-up the grain anyway!
Sorry for the overly-long story. I just wanted to put my answer into the proper context.
Dave
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Dave,
Which is indeed important. Children always want to know want to know "What's the BEST [car, camera, farmland, system of government...]?"
Then most of them grow up and understand that there's always another question: "Best for what purpose?"
But some never do.
Cheers,
R.
21-135 Apo All Good
Established
Roger,
Thanks so much for taking the time from your busy day to chat. It's always a pleasure to hear from you!
I learned this developing technique from my Dad back in the early to mid 70's. I brought my Dad into my HS Photo Class for "Show & Tell". It really blew photo students' (and the Teacher) minds when Dad showed them "pink" film on the reel and then quickly immersed the reel in the extra-strong fixer for a brief 1/2 minute. That entire newspaper lab dated back to the days of the Speed Graphic, and had water-jacketed temperature controlled cut film tanks for the fixer & wash tanks. I think that they were either Leedal or Arkay stainless. Wish I had those cut film tanks today! They probably hit the dumpster when the Paper went totally digital years ago, giving up wet printing altogether.
Back then it was easier making a living in this field.....
Have a great day! And may all your Hypo smell sweet with success!
Dave
sepiareverb
genius and moron
How is eight minutes Rapid? Three minutes with Sprint Rapid Fixer, four for T-grain films.
First time I brought film to AP ('85) they used this same technique. I was shocked to see the image on paper within 5 or 6 minutes. Nearly as fast as a Polaroid!
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
I think you are mixing up t-max and tri-x. T-Max (and other t-grain films) requires more fixing time than old style films.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Dave,
That reminds me of an old Ilford party-piece, all under normal room lighting. Drain developer; remove lid; pull out reels; saunter across room; drop film in fixer. I don't think they used short stop.
I've never been able to find out whether there were no ill effects because the saunter took less time than than the induction period for the fogging; or because very little development is going to happen in 5 seconds anyway; or because there is going to be virtually no printing out in 5 seconds. And, I believe, the film is quite strongly desensitized by the developer anyway.
Stories like your father's, and this one, make me smile when I think about so many of the obsessive-compulsive LF users you encounter nowadays. After all, the main reason 4x5 inch survived so long in newspaper usage was because it could take so much abuse!
Cheers,
R.
anu L ogy
Well-known
I am confused. I fix for 3 mins tops with sprint for hp5 and trix. I never even knew that certain films need more time. What happens if you don't fix for enough time.
gb hill
Veteran
You will know when you see it. Simply put it back in the fixer for a few more minuets. I use Ilford rapid fixer & 4 mins for me is about tops.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Two stages. Serious under-fixing looks cloudy and murky. Slight under-fixing = poor permanence. With 'new technology' film there's more of a pink tint with short fix times, but unless you've also under-fixed, this shouldn't matter. I've never used Sprint but if you've been following the manufacturer's guide-lines you'll be fine.
To test fixing time, see http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/fixer exhaustion.html
Cheers,
R.
guoshuo
Established
I think I got your points, thanks guys.