stefan_dinu
Established
As I was watching the beautiful pictures made by Bruno Barney, I found out that people from Morocco don't like to be photographed. And since I am going to Morocco on the 4th of January I got a bit nervous about this.
So, I need some advices from people who went there for photos. How to approach people there. I just take pictures and don't mind about their comments or gestures? It is better to ask permission? You often get their permission?
It would be better if I go there with a stealth camera?
Which brings me to another advice needed. About the equipment.
I am not constrain to a small kit since I am going by car. I thought it will be better to take a Knica Hexar AF for wondering on the crowded streets and take pictures with discretion.
Appart from that I am still confused about the other camera. Do you think I should take a digital camera with me? Like a Canon 5D or Epson RD1? Or to take the Hexar RF with 50 to complement the film kit. It was a good oportunity for my Bronica 645RF kit to make his debut. But if it will be impossible to use it with people i rather leave it home?
Do any of you have some experience with thiscountry and people living there?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thak you.
So, I need some advices from people who went there for photos. How to approach people there. I just take pictures and don't mind about their comments or gestures? It is better to ask permission? You often get their permission?
It would be better if I go there with a stealth camera?
Which brings me to another advice needed. About the equipment.
I am not constrain to a small kit since I am going by car. I thought it will be better to take a Knica Hexar AF for wondering on the crowded streets and take pictures with discretion.
Appart from that I am still confused about the other camera. Do you think I should take a digital camera with me? Like a Canon 5D or Epson RD1? Or to take the Hexar RF with 50 to complement the film kit. It was a good oportunity for my Bronica 645RF kit to make his debut. But if it will be impossible to use it with people i rather leave it home?
Do any of you have some experience with thiscountry and people living there?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thak you.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Do some searches here in RFF.
There was guy about two weeks ago planning to open a hotel or something specializing in photo holidays in north Africa.
He appeared to know the region already, and I recall seemed to know Morocco and Tunisia.
There was guy about two weeks ago planning to open a hotel or something specializing in photo holidays in north Africa.
He appeared to know the region already, and I recall seemed to know Morocco and Tunisia.
c.poulton
Well-known
I travelled to Marrakech earlier this year and found it almost impossible to do any real 'street photography'. Either people were resolutely against being photographed (if they noticed me bringing the camera to my eye they would shield their faces, etc) or they demanded money for the shot. It seemed rather perverse that they either had deep seated reasons for not wanting to be photographed, which I largely respected (except for a few distant street shots not aiming at anyone in particular) or they soon forgot those reasons when money was involved.
I must admit that I found Morocco to be one of the hardest places to photograph - usually it's an enjoyable experience for me to ander the streets shooting whatever catches my eye, however here I very soon found out it can get rather intimidating - so be on your guard, especially for the money demanding types who are really relentless.
All in all, unless you are into landscapes or architectural photography, I would only take one camera with you.
I must admit that I found Morocco to be one of the hardest places to photograph - usually it's an enjoyable experience for me to ander the streets shooting whatever catches my eye, however here I very soon found out it can get rather intimidating - so be on your guard, especially for the money demanding types who are really relentless.
All in all, unless you are into landscapes or architectural photography, I would only take one camera with you.
stefan_dinu
Established
So it is true. In this case I really think it is advisable to leave home everything except for Hexar AF. Iwould not be a pain for me, because most of the time even on other M bodies I use the 35mm focal a lot. The only regret I have is that I would not have time to play with my Hexar AF long enough to master it.
Actualy is not even in my possesion right now. It will be here with a day before my departure.
Now I am asking the Hexar AF owners: if I have experience with Hexar RF or any other M body for that matter, would be hard for me to get along with Hexar AF? Do you think is not such a good ideea to get this camera on this important trip because I am not familiar with it? Or is it easy to get along with it?
Actualy is not even in my possesion right now. It will be here with a day before my departure.
Now I am asking the Hexar AF owners: if I have experience with Hexar RF or any other M body for that matter, would be hard for me to get along with Hexar AF? Do you think is not such a good ideea to get this camera on this important trip because I am not familiar with it? Or is it easy to get along with it?
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
c.poulton said:
Ok sorry but I deeply disagree and I deeply apologize in advance if I am bluntly:
1. They are a lot of RFF members who took amazing pictures of Morocco ... with people in them! HAve a look at the wonderful work by RayG (wonderful!!) or Daydan (his work made me rediscover a country where I grew up) or MélanieC and others.
2. Morocco is one of the most photographed countries.
3. Moroccan people are not supposed to be different from European people: in Paris, people don't like to be photographed, and it's the same in London, in Madrid ... you have to be sly if you want to take pictures of people in streets.
4. Indeed, Arab culture is not very open to the "Western image culture" and people are rather modest; but if ask for a picture, it's ok. RayG did something I wouldn't dare doing, namely taking pictures of praying people in a mosque. So it's not that difficult.
5. Moroccan people are poorer than European people!!!! So it's not unbelievable that some poor people agree to be photographed for money! I'm sick with all this "oh they are money interested" ... Even in Scotland some poor people beg for money in streets if you want to photograph them (I experienced that). But that's not a problem because with my camera in my hands I HAVE NO NATURAL RIGHT!
I had to say.
Best,
Marc
wgerrard
Veteran
Stefan, I haven't been to Morocco but I have spent a fair amount of time elsewhere in the Arabic world. So, take this extrapolation for what it is worth.
Unless you spend all your time in high-end resorts taking pictures of other Westerners, you will find, I suspect, that Chris is correct. Westerners, not just Americans, are usually stereotyped as very assertive, fast, loud, self-centered and often rather ungentle people. (We sure seem to be on TV.) Sticking a camera in someone's face conforms to the stereotype. The notion of people wandering around ordinary streets taking photos of ordinary people strikes most of those ordinary people as more than a bit odd, even suspicious. You will be easily recognized as a tourist, so why, they will think, aren't you satisfied with taking pictures of all the tourist sites? Why are you taking pictures of me? Who paid you? Who wants these pictures?
You get the idea.
As for asking for money... well, it's a quick way for someone to pick up a dinar or two. They almost certainly need it. I'd carry a pocketful.
Also be aware that anything even broadly considered to be a government building may be off limits to photography. I know that's the case elsewhere. You do not want to be confronted by armed guards.
Be interested in people. Talk with them, if possible. Then, ask permission for a photo. If, for example, you want to shoot a street food vendor, buy something from the guy first. Ask him questions; talk about yourself. If you get the shot, it will mean a lot more to you. (Don't know how your Arabic is, but it takes only a few minutes to pick up 'Hello', 'Please', 'Thank You', etc. )
If possible, your best bet is to go out in the company of a local, who can add a lot to the experience in addition to keeping you out of trouble.
Unless you spend all your time in high-end resorts taking pictures of other Westerners, you will find, I suspect, that Chris is correct. Westerners, not just Americans, are usually stereotyped as very assertive, fast, loud, self-centered and often rather ungentle people. (We sure seem to be on TV.) Sticking a camera in someone's face conforms to the stereotype. The notion of people wandering around ordinary streets taking photos of ordinary people strikes most of those ordinary people as more than a bit odd, even suspicious. You will be easily recognized as a tourist, so why, they will think, aren't you satisfied with taking pictures of all the tourist sites? Why are you taking pictures of me? Who paid you? Who wants these pictures?
You get the idea.
As for asking for money... well, it's a quick way for someone to pick up a dinar or two. They almost certainly need it. I'd carry a pocketful.
Also be aware that anything even broadly considered to be a government building may be off limits to photography. I know that's the case elsewhere. You do not want to be confronted by armed guards.
Be interested in people. Talk with them, if possible. Then, ask permission for a photo. If, for example, you want to shoot a street food vendor, buy something from the guy first. Ask him questions; talk about yourself. If you get the shot, it will mean a lot more to you. (Don't know how your Arabic is, but it takes only a few minutes to pick up 'Hello', 'Please', 'Thank You', etc. )
If possible, your best bet is to go out in the company of a local, who can add a lot to the experience in addition to keeping you out of trouble.
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Rjackson
Newbie
Well I have to agree with a lot of what has already been posted including Marc-A. I have traveled extensively in Tanzania and Kenya as well as Central and South America. As Marc-A stated stealth is import for a lot of shots. In Africa I used both a Leica M6 as well as a small hand held Rollei 35. I used to preset the Rollei with a decent depth of field and then take “palm shots”. The Rollei is so small that people do not see it. I also used to take a lot of Dixon pencils with me. In poor areas I would take a shot of kids then hand them each a pencil. They loved it, and opened up. Not only did I get some shots I wanted but they also got something useful.
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ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I agree with wgerrard above.
Wear casual regular clothes, move slow, fit in, have the camera with you but not taking photos.
Do not wear flashy western clothes or trainers, or an expensive watch, and do not have a big bag of cameras with lots of controls.
Hexar AF is perfect.
Stop in a cafe, have a coke, watch tv, banter about the football, talk about the weather, whatever.
Agree with their distrust of Dubya.
Chat about Manchester United, the price of beer, and the Spice Girls.
Laugh with them at the three-legged dog, the guy who falls off his bicycle, and the guy with a donkey and a cart load of melons.
Walk through the market and buy a few figs and tangerines for later in the day.
Hang around and let the people see you and get used to you.
Have the camera over your shoulder or round your neck (not in a bag), and look at but do not photograph. They'll see the camera, but they'll also see you.
Then, later, raise the camera gently and ask with your eyes and a smile. They will signal 'Yes' or 'No' and you'll respect that. If you are really lucky the guy at the next table will pull on your sleeve and ask you to photograph him too.
I hear the Kif mountains are well-worth going to, and I'd like to see the King Hassan II mosque in Casablanca, especially at night.
Enjoy.
Wear casual regular clothes, move slow, fit in, have the camera with you but not taking photos.
Do not wear flashy western clothes or trainers, or an expensive watch, and do not have a big bag of cameras with lots of controls.
Hexar AF is perfect.
Stop in a cafe, have a coke, watch tv, banter about the football, talk about the weather, whatever.
Agree with their distrust of Dubya.
Chat about Manchester United, the price of beer, and the Spice Girls.
Laugh with them at the three-legged dog, the guy who falls off his bicycle, and the guy with a donkey and a cart load of melons.
Walk through the market and buy a few figs and tangerines for later in the day.
Hang around and let the people see you and get used to you.
Have the camera over your shoulder or round your neck (not in a bag), and look at but do not photograph. They'll see the camera, but they'll also see you.
Then, later, raise the camera gently and ask with your eyes and a smile. They will signal 'Yes' or 'No' and you'll respect that. If you are really lucky the guy at the next table will pull on your sleeve and ask you to photograph him too.
I hear the Kif mountains are well-worth going to, and I'd like to see the King Hassan II mosque in Casablanca, especially at night.
Enjoy.
stefan_dinu
Established
Wonderful advices here and sure they are not just for me. I traveled a lot in Europe, as I am from Romania, but I also was in muslim area twice. But it was somwhow different. One is Rajasthan in north-west India, and the other one is Istanbul. But in both places people are so friendly with photographers. I am a bit concerned about Morocco since I heard others that have the same feeling of rejecton from the people there. I hope this is a bit overstatment.
When I was three weeks in India I got to know that the best way is to communicate with them somehow. I always wear a smile on my face, and not that western compasionate smile. I relate to people on the street, buy food, fruits or tchai from the street. Ask people questions about the places.
The most usefull thing that I found out there is that I took better pictures in the areas that I wondered quite a bit. After passing trough the same area a couple of times, people tend to ignore you on the third or fourth passing. That is the time when you can take the camera and snap a few shots. Especialy if you don't want everybody to smile at your camera.
Thank you everybody for sharing.
When I was three weeks in India I got to know that the best way is to communicate with them somehow. I always wear a smile on my face, and not that western compasionate smile. I relate to people on the street, buy food, fruits or tchai from the street. Ask people questions about the places.
The most usefull thing that I found out there is that I took better pictures in the areas that I wondered quite a bit. After passing trough the same area a couple of times, people tend to ignore you on the third or fourth passing. That is the time when you can take the camera and snap a few shots. Especialy if you don't want everybody to smile at your camera.
Thank you everybody for sharing.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
stefan_dinu:
You have got it already.
Show us your photos when you get back.
You have got it already.
Show us your photos when you get back.
Mackinaw
Think Different
I was in Morocco back in 1995. We ended up paying a local to be our guide who took us all around Tangier. He would "break the ice" for us, regarding taking pictures, so that photographing a local wasn't an issue. Yes, everybody has their hand out but that's just part of the local culture. Morocco's a great place, I'm sure you will enjoy your visit.
Jim B.
Jim B.
kuzano
Veteran
If I went to Morocco.....
If I went to Morocco.....
I don't think I would take a camera. If I did take a camera, it would be an expendable camera.
On second thought, I would never go to Morocco, so the question is moot.
If I went to Morocco.....
I don't think I would take a camera. If I did take a camera, it would be an expendable camera.
On second thought, I would never go to Morocco, so the question is moot.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
ClaremontPhoto said:
Where have you been Jon? :angel:
You can buy beer in a café in Morocco. Alcohol (beer/wine or whishy ... in Coca Cola
in order to hide it) is ok only in European restaurants or trendy places for young jet set (some big hotels or night clubs like the Paradise in Marrakech ... well it used to be trendy). But take my advice: you'd better avoid chatting about the price of beer in Morocco
wgerrard
Veteran
Stefan, in Morocco you will probably be able to hire, rather cheaply, a driver and a car. The driver doubles as a guide. Also likely to be available is a deal where several people, usually strangers, hire a taxi to take them from Point A to Point B, typically somewhere out of town. The concept seems to go by different names in different countries.
joshuar
Member
for what it might be worth, i have travelled in morocco and found photographing there (particularly people) more awkward than anywhere else i have ever shot. sometimes peolpe's expressions even made me feel 'bad' for taking pictures. i have a few shots in my gallery from morocco, but if you look you will realise that none of them have the human element. i learnt that the closest i would come was animals, so i photographed them, and landscape/architectural shots mostly - not what i had really wanted to, and not what i prefer, but that was what i felt comfortable, and fair, doing.
as other people have said, it is possible, but a few coins, or a bit of your time are going to be necessary. a guide certainly helps, though candids aren't going be easy even with one.
as other people have said, it is possible, but a few coins, or a bit of your time are going to be necessary. a guide certainly helps, though candids aren't going be easy even with one.
wgerrard
Veteran
joshuar said:
Just for the sake of perspective, if I was walking around in my town in Middle America and a Moroccan tourist suddenly started to take pictures of me, I'd very likely frown and wave him off, at the very least.
The law may say we have a right to take uninvited pictures of strangers on the street, but that doesn't mean we have permission.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Just out of curiosity, why's that?kuzano said:
And about bringing cameras in Morocco and taking amazing pictures, please have a look there:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rgphotos/sets/72157600027542481/
RayG's pictures of Morocco are very impressive. Here's one of his finest pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rgphotos/435761193/in/set-72157600027542481/
And another one:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rgphotos/435764307/in/set-72157600027542481/
And a last one (Moroccan people don't bite):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rgphotos/435761241/in/set-72157600027542481/
Have a nice trip Stefan, be cool, respectful (as you surely are in daily life), and make good pictures
Cheers,
Marc
stefan_dinu
Established
I found that commentary of kuzano akward also. But I am pretty sure that he has nothing against Morocco but it is not on his list of places to visit. Is the same with me and USA. I don't find nothing appealing for me there, as a future freelance photojurnalist.
And there are many people that don't know what they will find there and thinks about going in a muslim country is dangerous for the common western turist. And this is largely because all the images that comes trough west are mostly violent. This is where I want to work, in removing this manufactured violent image of some places around the world. I want to make simple photo stories that tells us that we are pretty much the same, and the things that we have in common are much more than the things that separate us. Just some thoughts...
My next destination is Iran.
And there are many people that don't know what they will find there and thinks about going in a muslim country is dangerous for the common western turist. And this is largely because all the images that comes trough west are mostly violent. This is where I want to work, in removing this manufactured violent image of some places around the world. I want to make simple photo stories that tells us that we are pretty much the same, and the things that we have in common are much more than the things that separate us. Just some thoughts...
My next destination is Iran.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
wgerrard said:
Thank you Bill.
I often wonder how I would react if I caught a guy taking a picture of me on the street. I think I would react badly. I'll start a thread on this topic.
Best,
Marc
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Marc-A. said:
Marc-A.: This evening i went to one of my local haunts. Joaquin had got a new Nokia and thought it very funny to photograph me. I was cool.