Merkin
For the Weekend
The previous truth in photography discussion got me thinking. Regardless of whether you think a photograph can be 'true' or not, do you think that black and white can be "more true" than color? Vice versa? Both equally true? Both equally untrue? Why?
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
Strange but true
Strange but true
Years ago, BW was considered to be "more" real than colour. Blame it on Hollywood and the Sunday Roto colour supplements.
Newsreels (ie, the real stuff) and news photos were always BW. Technicolor was associated with cartoons, singing costume musicals, and fairy tale fantasies. Many directors chose to shoot their movies in BW even if a simple, inexpensive colour option was available, for 'realism'.
I guess all these changed when colour photography became prevalent.
I still feel that BW is more efficient in conveying certain expressions or concepts pictorially. Absence of colour, strength in form -and all those tired clichés- are indeed valid.
Strange but true
Years ago, BW was considered to be "more" real than colour. Blame it on Hollywood and the Sunday Roto colour supplements.
Newsreels (ie, the real stuff) and news photos were always BW. Technicolor was associated with cartoons, singing costume musicals, and fairy tale fantasies. Many directors chose to shoot their movies in BW even if a simple, inexpensive colour option was available, for 'realism'.
I guess all these changed when colour photography became prevalent.
I still feel that BW is more efficient in conveying certain expressions or concepts pictorially. Absence of colour, strength in form -and all those tired clichés- are indeed valid.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Color photography is limited by the color-range of the film and following process steps already and thus not that "true" anymore so why not go one step further and reduce "reality" to a pure 2D monochrome image ?
Baldadash
#2
I have to agree with Maddoc on color vs. BW. There is always some form of processing done. BW may invoke more sympathetic emotions if your are photographing homeless children in a third world slum, color photographs may invoke more joyous emotions if your are photographing a wedding in Mumbai.
But, the color or lack of does not make one more true than the other.
But, the color or lack of does not make one more true than the other.
sjw617
Panoramist
We do not see in B&W so it can never be real.
sjw617
Panoramist
How can you 'reduce' and think it is real? Ridiculous.
hitmanh
dum de dum de doo
Well, a lot of people dream in black and white and some people have no colour vision at all, so B&W isn't quite as far out of reality as is often made out.
As to truth though, no, it makes no difference.
As to truth though, no, it makes no difference.
williams473
Well-known
"Reality" is best visually discerned by each individual on their own terms. Everyone sees a little differently - reproducing "reality" should not be the expressive photographer's goal in my opinion, because you can not make someone else see the way you do. You can however, make a photograph from those experiences.
Both color and black and white photographs abstract reality just by the fact that they are photographs, without even going into how the two mediums differ. They are 2D images made with lenses and devoid of any other context - sensory or otherwise - that ain't reality. They are not the thing, they are a photograph of the thing. The photographer must choose which best serves the photograph.
Both color and black and white photographs abstract reality just by the fact that they are photographs, without even going into how the two mediums differ. They are 2D images made with lenses and devoid of any other context - sensory or otherwise - that ain't reality. They are not the thing, they are a photograph of the thing. The photographer must choose which best serves the photograph.
antiquark
Derek Ross
Define "true."
peterm1
Veteran
I honestly dont know what the fuss is about in relation to photography representing reality. Speaking personally, I take photos to escape reality. :^)
Seriously. Photography is a form of art. Art has seldom if ever been about a literal representation of reality. At best it seeks an idealised representation. Mostly it seeks to make a symbolic or perhaps impressionistic representation. And sometimes it does not want to represent reality at all. My photos are certianly designed to create a feeling, not to be "accurate" in any literal sense.
I suppose there is a place for literal representation of reality - on the police crime scene investigation squad! But elsewhere the sky is the limit.
I repeat my quote form an earleir thread.........
""Beauty is truth, truth beauty"---that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know. "
My tounge is a little in my cheek. But I have a serious purpose. To disabuse people of the notion that their job as photographer is to represent reality or capture "truth" - unless theya re talking about "inner truth" of course. that is a different kettle of fish.
Seriously. Photography is a form of art. Art has seldom if ever been about a literal representation of reality. At best it seeks an idealised representation. Mostly it seeks to make a symbolic or perhaps impressionistic representation. And sometimes it does not want to represent reality at all. My photos are certianly designed to create a feeling, not to be "accurate" in any literal sense.
I suppose there is a place for literal representation of reality - on the police crime scene investigation squad! But elsewhere the sky is the limit.
I repeat my quote form an earleir thread.........
""Beauty is truth, truth beauty"---that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know. "
My tounge is a little in my cheek. But I have a serious purpose. To disabuse people of the notion that their job as photographer is to represent reality or capture "truth" - unless theya re talking about "inner truth" of course. that is a different kettle of fish.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
All photography is a lie because it is highly selective: where do you point your camera, when do you press the release?
All good art is true because it speaks from the heart and says what we believe to be true.
Who can draw Venn diagrams of photography and art?
Tashi delegs,
Roger
All good art is true because it speaks from the heart and says what we believe to be true.
Who can draw Venn diagrams of photography and art?
Tashi delegs,
Roger
aizan
Veteran
when i was little, i used to think the world actually was b&w in the old days. all i knew was that cameras make photographs that show you what was there, so i just assumed...
climbing_vine
Well-known
In what sense is photography selective where painting, sculpture, or any other art isn't?
Or are those also "not art", and you're trying to say that only prayer is art...
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
I don't think it really matters "Color vs. B&W...
A great image would still be great either way...
Now that I've said that...Truth can and will vary depending on which side of the street you're shooting from...so your Truth may not be my Truth but you can still show me your Truth and I can, if I'm willing, learn/see your Truth...
Plus if I want I can shoot from the other side of the street even if it's not my side and someone will still see it as Truth...be it B&W or Color...
A great image would still be great either way...
Now that I've said that...Truth can and will vary depending on which side of the street you're shooting from...so your Truth may not be my Truth but you can still show me your Truth and I can, if I'm willing, learn/see your Truth...
Plus if I want I can shoot from the other side of the street even if it's not my side and someone will still see it as Truth...be it B&W or Color...
capitalK
Warrior Poet :P
I wouldn't say that I "see" the world in B&W, but B&W is how I want to remember the world.
[FONT=COMIC SANS MS, ARIAL] [FONT=COMIC SANS MS, ARIAL]Calvin: Dad, how come old photographs are always black and white? Didn't they have color film back then?
Dad: Sure they did. In fact, those old photographs are in color. It's just the world was black and white then.
Calvin: Really?
Dad: Yep. The world didn't turn color until sometime in the 1930s, and it was pretty grainy color for a while, too.
Calvin: That's really weird.
Dad: Well, truth is stranger than fiction.
Calvin: But then why are old paintings in color?! If their world was black and white, wouldn't artists have painted it that way?
Dad: Not necessarily. A lot of great artists were insane.
Calvin: But... but how could they have painted in color anyway? Wouldn't their paints have been shades of gray back then?
Dad: Of course, but they turned colors like everything else did in the '30s.
Calvin: So why didn't old black and white photos turn color too?
Dad: Because they were color pictures of black and white, remember? [/FONT]
[FONT=COMIC SANS MS, ARIAL][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=COMIC SANS MS, ARIAL] [FONT=COMIC SANS MS, ARIAL]Calvin: Dad, how come old photographs are always black and white? Didn't they have color film back then?
Dad: Sure they did. In fact, those old photographs are in color. It's just the world was black and white then.
Calvin: Really?
Dad: Yep. The world didn't turn color until sometime in the 1930s, and it was pretty grainy color for a while, too.
Calvin: That's really weird.
Dad: Well, truth is stranger than fiction.
Calvin: But then why are old paintings in color?! If their world was black and white, wouldn't artists have painted it that way?
Dad: Not necessarily. A lot of great artists were insane.
Calvin: But... but how could they have painted in color anyway? Wouldn't their paints have been shades of gray back then?
Dad: Of course, but they turned colors like everything else did in the '30s.
Calvin: So why didn't old black and white photos turn color too?
Dad: Because they were color pictures of black and white, remember? [/FONT]
[FONT=COMIC SANS MS, ARIAL][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Al Kaplan
Veteran
A lot of the under thirty crowd has never seen a Life Magazine.
fretbuzzard
Newbie
A fine art photographer and an architectural or product photographer will have very different standards for truth. Truth of emotional content? Fidelity to the structure or item being photographed? Choice of b/w or color will have a lot to do with these different standards. I imagine this is one of those "horses for courses" debates.
Melvin
Flim Forever!
I accept the basic truth of photography: real photons strike a real surface and alter it, that is true. Of course the results can be synthesized, or made to lie, but that doesn't make photography untruthful. That would be like saying because people use speech to lie that the voice itself is false, when it is really only sound.
mh2000
Well-known
"Reality" is as you perceive it... and *I* perceive b&w photos to be more "real" than color photos.
There is a line in a My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult song that goes, "Reality is the only word in the English language that should always be used in quotes," and there really is some truth to that.
Regarding processing of color images, in the digital world, I have some friends that obsess over getting the colors "right" using all kinds of profiling and balancing techniques... I always tell them, who cares, when it comes down to it you are always going to just do what makes the photo look best anyway, so why even worry about what is right in the first place?
There is a line in a My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult song that goes, "Reality is the only word in the English language that should always be used in quotes," and there really is some truth to that.
Regarding processing of color images, in the digital world, I have some friends that obsess over getting the colors "right" using all kinds of profiling and balancing techniques... I always tell them, who cares, when it comes down to it you are always going to just do what makes the photo look best anyway, so why even worry about what is right in the first place?
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deepwhite
Well-known
As an amateur
I confess
My b/w is more real
When my color shots fail....
Sometimes the white balance is just off. Film or digital. We can always fix it in Photoshop, but we do that in our room, not where we took the shots. Therefore we are fixing the white balance according to our memory, not what we saw then. This along is not 100% "real".
I confess
My b/w is more real
When my color shots fail....
Sometimes the white balance is just off. Film or digital. We can always fix it in Photoshop, but we do that in our room, not where we took the shots. Therefore we are fixing the white balance according to our memory, not what we saw then. This along is not 100% "real".