Trying to evaluate the need for a XPan …

tj01 said:
The other alternative is the Mamiya 7 with panaromic adapter. It's a bit big, but you also get 6X7.
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For me, this would actually be a negative point (on top of the bulk and weight).
The XPan really shines, as it shares the same film with my film RFs and has a similar size/ weight, to easily slip into the same bag instead of one of the 35mm bodies.

It will not be primary camera, but an additional interesting format.
As a primary for me, the lenses are too slow and I like digital as primary these days for the quick workflow.
 
It is such an awesome format to use...

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A good way to look at it, is that you are a storyteller when you use an XPan frame. All that extra space is like a little movie, as you look left to right...you can fit in a lot more and therefore say a lot more.
China just has so much going on in it, I think you almost require a panoramic camera to adequately portray it. It's good for places like that...in this case, Las Vegas as I was walking around (outside, in stead of inside in a dark casino)

vegas_shadows.jpg
 
menos said:
I have had a loooong look through photographs from the swing lens panoramic cameras and find, that they are very interesting tools, but do give you more limitations, where a shot works due to the distortion.

There are some very intelligent uses, where the distortion actually works with the subject, giving the impression, the subject actually shapes in a wave instead of looking like a warped view around a a corner.

I think, it is difficult, to shoot these cameras with this in mind.
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For me, the swing lens "distortion" is what makes these cameras so unique ;-)
Once you figure out how it works, you can get really unusual shots with it.
But you have to watch out for camera POV and orientation while composing, to make it work.

Another limitation is that focusing is impossible with most swing-lens cameras, as the focus is fixed to infinity or some hyperfocal distance. You have to stop down a lot, if you want close range subjects to be sharp.

Because of these limitations, I wouldn't recommend the Horizon or similar swing-lens cameras for typical street photography, although they are great cameras 🙂
 
Thanks for this additional arguments against the swing lens design for my use ;-)
I didn't think about this necessary design cue.
 
Swing lens cameras aren't worse, they're just different.

I had an exhibition of my photos from the Widelux - photographs from China. I found the camera really useful, and unique, as a street photography tool. This is due to how easy it is to 'shoot from the hip' and not raise it to your eye...you can be very discreet and portray people as they truly are, without changing from seeing a camera in the usual way.
 
hi everybody,

a couple of points as an xpan and horizon(russian pano)user.

-the xpan lens is surely one of the best there is for that format, even if shooting into direct sunlight- also wide oppen it offers superior quality
- rangefinder is bright and very usable even in low light conditions
- the xpan can also be used as a 'normal' format 35mm camera (24x36)
- i love the feature that pulls your exposed film into the canister- you never look at yourself and say 'idiot' when u accidentaly open the back of the xpan
- the 90 mm lens is fantastic for portraits that include a big piece of background in an unconventional format.
-most of all i love the fact that you don't get the artifacts one gets in panos taken with a horizon-widelux (rotating lens), and the fact that you can choose your focusing distance!

as to the question if one needs such a camera, i can only say once u get your hands on one, you might get hooked.

good luck!
 
My XPan is used primarily as a compact, travel and "walking around" camera, along with my Widelux 7 and a digital Canon S95(primarily for low light shots). I think it's a great team for that purpose,accomodating standard, wide, and super wide formats.

If my goal is better quality for enlargement, I go with the "big boys"---see below.

XPan is a great camera smoothly performing both shorter panoramic and standard 35mm functions. I'll never sell mine.

Texsport
 
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Menos: there is something about your cropped Leica photos that, even though taken with 50mm and 35mm lenses, makes them look almost as wide as if I'd taken them with the XPan, with 45mm lens; maybe even with the 30mm. It must have something to do with the wide aspect ratio encouraging the eye to scan left to right. Maybe the fact that there are so many details in your shots--so much information to take in--has something to do with it as well. At any rate, you have some nice shots there.
 
Rob-F said:
Menos: there is something about your cropped Leica photos that, even though taken with 50mm and 35mm lenses, makes them look almost as wide as if I'd taken them with the XPan, with 45mm lens; maybe even with the 30mm. It must have something to do with the wide aspect ratio encouraging the eye to scan left to right. Maybe the fact that there are so many details in your shots--so much information to take in--has something to do with it as well. At any rate, you have some nice shots there.
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Thank you for the kind remarks Rob!

The idea about adding a XPan really was for the nice compact form factor and potentially well matching with my current film Leicas.

The current prices for second hand bodies though are prohibitive. I will watch the XPan from an angle and see, if at some point, I might add a XPan + 45mm.
For now, the Leica M and a sharp 35mm lens is actually more versatile it seems - I can shoot in lower light handheld - only the composition is slightly more "imaginative" ;-)
 
xpans are well worth the cost Menos. I take both my M8 and xpan out shooting, and find myself using the xpan more. It's just a more interesting format. As for shooting at night. A tripod is necessary, so no freehand work, it is a real gem of a camera. Something I will never part with.
 
Great cameras, but hard to use well for documenntary with a bit of brain re-wiring required. I think I might fare better with the 30mm, but its expensive. The 45mm is a bit long for me, but I am going to have one major crack at it by using mine (with an M and 25mm) to contribute to a project I am working on. The thing is, when done well, the pano format does a great job of mixing up a documentary portfolio, but getting there is the hard part! its just so different to about anything else.
 
An option not often listed (alternative to X-Pan)

An option not often listed (alternative to X-Pan)

I've used and definitely like the Bronica ETRSi system camera.

There is a little known film back listed as the 135W (not to be confused with the 135N) The back frames a 58X24 image, using 35mm film transported in landscape mode.

These backs are somewhat rare, but right now there are two on eBay, searching Bronica 135W. Furthermore, I have seen them rather regularly on eBay.

They are costly when found, usually close to $400.

The good news however, is that the ETRSi system, in good condition can be found for much less than the X-pan, has a good array of leaf shutter lenses for reasonable prices, and also offers multiple frame use up to 645. The ETRSi is the smallest camera of the various Medium Format system camera's, and with the speed grip (manual) is very usable ergonomically.

Personally (and this is my own opinion) the xpan would never be my choice from an expense standpoint.

I've used Bronica's in many forms, starting with the Bronica S2 with the Nikkor 75mm lens. Bronica glass has in most cases been extremely sharp, creating nice images.

Prices on average... ETRSi w/ 75 lens, film back (120), metered prism, speed grip....

$300 to $400.

40mm 2.8 lens $225 to $250

135W back... $400

Total system price... EST $1000, with two lens and 120 645 capability.

Two cameras in effect for much less than the X-pan.

One downside.... 58x24 vs 65X24 frame

One upside... probably far more salable when the Pano Phase dies away.
 
Jubb Jubb, I keep my eyes open for one.

Kuzano, the Bronica is a nice option for people, wanting a MF system camera on a nice budget.
It is though a completely different shooting from what the XPan would offer.

Main reason for me, to find the XPan appealing is in fact, that it is a rangefinder camera, very similar in size and shooting style to the Leica RFs, I use.
It even could fit right into the same bag, just exchanging one Leica with the XPan as an supplementary format.

I actually am not interested in MF, nor do I want the huuge bulk and weight of big SLR cameras back (I used mainly 35mm Nikon before finding out about the Leica M).

Fitting two or max 3 M bodies in a bag with three lenses is perfect - I have wide and short tele covered and mix sometimes also film and digital, depending on location and subject.

I like the panoramic format as an extra view and would like to experiment with this - not as the only format, but supplementary.
 
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