Two observations about the Hasselblad Xpan

[narsuitus]

Two observations about the Hasselblad Xpan

I have never used a Hasselblad or a Fuji 135 panoramic film camera but would love to try them.

Here are my two observations:

1. Instead, I use 135 film in a 220 film back on my RB67 to get panoramic images. One thing I like about my setup is that my RB does not rely on battery power like the Hasselblad and Fuji panoramic cameras.

2. Another thing that I like about my RB is that my images include film sprocket holes for an effect that is different from what the Hasselblad or a Fuji 135 panoramic film cameras provide.

 

[OlivierAOP]

Just a comment regarding vignetting. No experience with the Xpan (I wish!), but it is likely caused by 1) the small size of the lens (the pupil is partially blocked by the barrel) and that goes away by stopping down the aperture; 2) the "cosine fourth" effect, which occurs in wide-angle symmetrical type lenses (i.e. not retrofocus) and that requires a centre filter to correct.

 

[jordan.dickinson]

I shoot an Xpan somewhat regularly and have the 3 lenses available for the system (30/45/90). The 45mm has some vignetting, more noticeably at wider apertures closer to wide open at f4. That said, it's relatively minor and if scanning negatives can be easily corrected. The 90mm has little to no vignetting, though I rarely shoot this lens. The 30mm has much more vignetting and more or less requires the center filter, but the field of view is so wide that it is really pushing the boundaries of the format/design.

The Xpan is hands down one of my all-time favorite cameras and if anyone has doubts about picking one up, I'd just say try one. I always keep cameras on the "feeling" I get using it, and the Xpan has that "it" factor. For others, it may not quite fit their shooting style, but the camera is a great piece of design/equipment in my eyes.

 

[Rob-F]

Here's another observation: While I love photos that have a wide aspect ratio, I feel that the XPAN is too Xtreme in that regard. Too often the photos made with the 45mm lens lack adequate foreground or sky; while the 30mm lens can be too wide horizontally for many shots. To my eye, an aspect ratio of around 2:1 is right for my photos. Panavision seems to have reached a similar conclusion for movies. 70mm Panavision has an aspect ratio of 2.21:1. That's less than the 2.35:1 of CinemaScope, and a lot less than the 2.7:1 of XPAN. And Paramount chose a variable aspect ratio for VistaVision, which could be shown anywhere from its native 1.66 to 2:1 by cropping. Paramount said they wanted more height than CinemasScope could deliver.

So this is one of the reasons I no longer have an XPAN. The other reason is that they are no longer being supported for repair purposes.

 

[shorelineae]

Here's another observation: While I love photos that have a wide aspect ratio, I feel that the XPAN is too Xtreme in that regard.

I have to agree about the ratio. I tried cropping some of my 6x6 images into 2.7:1 but found it very difficult. Of course, my photos were attempted 6x6 compositions in which I was trying to 'find a panoramic photo', but still, too narrow.

On the other hand, maybe this is what helps make Xpan shots unique, when you find a good 2.7:1 composition....

 

[james.liam]

I don't know what you would have to guide you in a 6x6 when you're framing, or using a 690 and running 135 film through it. On the Xpan, what you see in th RF or viewfinder (for the 30) is pretty much what you get. One of a kind device.

 

[shorelineae]

I don't know what you would have to guide you in a 6x6 when you're framing.

By drawing a line on the focusing screen 😉 For example, the S2, a 6x6 camera that I bought, had the screen marked with lines for 6x4.5.

 

[Lids]

Of course, 120 roll film cameras have no means with which to rewind the film (excepting a Rolleiflex TLR with Rolleikin adapter)

G

...and also excepting the Mamiya 7. Its panorama adapter kit comes with a knob to rewind the film back into the cassette.

The Mamiya is the only camera I regret selling. I still have the adapter too... I think somewhere in the back of my mind I thought I might get it again.

Just curious... what camera do you use that adapter in?

 

[neal3k]

Speaking of hand-holding the big Fujis. I hand-hold my 690 and 617, even with Ektar. It helps that I usually shoot landscapes in bright daylight.

 

[didjiman]

I have probably shot over 3000-4000 frames on my XPan II, maybe 10-15% with the 30mm. I have center filters for all my lenses. I don't use them, even on slides. People who complain about vignetting probably have not shot with one

 

[TimPrebble]

I've had my TX2/XPAN2 for 5 years now and shoot a lot of long exposures using Lee Filters Seven 5 with it...
I use the 30mm lens 90% of the time (always have centre filter on) and on a recent shoot got strong vignette on long exposures,

Below is a comp for comparison between the shots:
90mm, 45mm, 30mm, 30mm w ND10 1 min long exposure, 30mm w ND15 3 min long exposure (patient seagull!)

I don't remember what F stop the 30mm was set when shooting the long exposures
but it must have been wide open to get such vignette, as I dont usually have this issue

I do remind myself not to shoot wide open with the 30mm for this reason, but juggling long exposure time
+ reciprocity in bright light can be tricky, without stacking filters...

This roll has made me be very aware of avoiding this situation - presumably the long exposure
accentuates such issues, in a similar way that a colour cast becomes stronger with longer exposures?

Fujifilm TX2 with Kodak Tmax100

 

[Doug]

Tim, I think it's the effect of the filter that's causing the extra light fall-off. The 30mm lens has a very wide view; the further from the center, the more angled the light rays. The more angled light rays pass through the filter at an angle, effectively making the filter thicker in the vector that the light rays travel. And the stronger ND15 filter increases the resulting light fall-off effect (vignetting) toward the corners.

 

[olakiril]

Doug is right. With a >100degrees FoV, ND effect at the edges will be 1.5X stronger. I am not sure if this can explain all the light falloff but in any case I like the one with the heavy vignette the most!

 

[filmtwit]

You can get the same from a Fuji GFx 50r for about half that price these days.

Observation 2

The Hasselblad X1D-50c (digital medium format) is at the same price as a Xpan on the well known auction site. I also read that the X1D-50c has a Xpan mode and EVF preview since 2018.

 

[filmtwit]

The Tx1/Xpan is easily half the size and weight of an RB and can easily be hand held below 1/100 too. You actually get a bigger neg (IE longer) from tx/Xpan too, so more info too. Just sayin'

I have never used a Hasselblad or a Fuji 135 panoramic film camera but would love to try them.

Here are my two observations:

1. Instead, I use 135 film in a 220 film back on my RB67 to get panoramic images. One thing I like about my setup is that my RB does not rely on battery power like the Hasselblad and Fuji panoramic cameras.

2. Another thing that I like about my RB is that my images include film sprocket holes for an effect that is different from what the Hasselblad or a Fuji 135 panoramic film cameras provide.

 

[retinax]

Doug is right. With a >100degrees FoV, ND effect at the edges will be 1.5X stronger. I am not sure if this can explain all the light falloff but in any case I like the one with the heavy vignette the most!

In addition to that, increased contrast due to reciprocity failure could make the fall-off appear stronger.

 

[narsuitus]

You actually get a bigger neg (IE longer) from tx/Xpan too, so more info too.

The size of the Xpan image is 24x65mm.
The size of the RB67 image is 24x70mm.

 

[TimPrebble]

Thank you so much Doug, Olakiril & Retinax - really appreciate understanding why

Cropping into the shot to reduce the presence of vignette is not ideal, but at least the 30mm is so wide that unless close to subject it is always an option...

& thanks Olakiril 😉 I love the tonality of long exposures, but am not always a fan of blurred clouds with longer exposures/stronger wind so every time is a unique challenge

Thanks again!!


Someone on the FB XPAN group suggested I could try using much slower film and could then avoid the need for ND filters...
but I am not sure I want to be stuck with eg iso15 film in my camera all the time!
I shoot normal exposures as well as longexposure (as a reference for the longexp if nothing else)
and very slow film would mean *always having to be on tripod....

As it is I tend to stick to Tmax100 and Acros 100 as I know their reciprocity behaviour
and I know I make more mistakes if swapping between film speeds etc...

 

[Godfrey]

...and also excepting the Mamiya 7. Its panorama adapter kit comes with a knob to rewind the film back into the cassette.

The Mamiya is the only camera I regret selling. I still have the adapter too... I think somewhere in the back of my mind I thought I might get it again.

Just curious... what camera do you use that adapter in?

I will use it in my Hasselblad A12 back, once I ream out the take up spool end a little bit (its opening is .5mm too small to fit properly as delivered).

G

 

[shawn]

You can get the same from a Fuji GFx 50r for about half that price these days.

And any recent Sigma Quattro camera has a 21:9 mode too.

Shawn