Typical handholding speeds?

[Paula]

Hi All,

As a newbie to the Lecia world...(I'm only on the 2nd roll!) I was wondering what your experiences were in minimum handholding speeds before camera shake becomes an issue. The gear is MP with 2/35mm.

Thanks
Paula

 

[Fred]

Welcome to the forum Paula.

The rule of thumb with 35mm SLR was a shutter speed of at least that of the focal length of the lens. That is if you have a 35mm, use a shutter speeed of at least around 1/35th (round it to 1/30th). With a 90mm use at least 1/90 (round to 1/125)

Now with a rangefinder where there is no mirror to swing and spoil the party so you should be able to hand hold about one shutter speed longer, i.e. 1/15th. With an MP where the shutter moves horizontally it should be even better.

Have fun and post some shots to the gallery when you are ready.

 

[merciful]

1/4 sec. should be easily achievable if you're braced and breathing properly; that is, having expelled breath just before pressing the shutter. Using a Softrelease will also help significantly.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Paula,

First, DON'T blindly trust the one-over-focal-length rule, which I see has already been touted. It's an excellent rule of thumb but it is too generous with longer lenses, where you often need a faster speed. With wide-angles, on the other hand, you can often get away with longer speeds than the rule provides. I'd prefer 1/250 with a 135mm lens but wouldn't worry about 1/15 with a 21mm. Longer -- even much longer -- may be achievable: in the 1930s exposures of 1/5 second with 50mm were relatively common.

Second, accept the difference between 'acceptably' sharp and 'as sharp as possible'. Shoot a target -- a newspaper at 6 to 10 feet/2 to 3 metres is a good idea -- to see that even with a 35mm lens, while 1/30 may be acceptable, 1/60 will probably be better and 1/125 may be better still.

Third, have you been running? How much sleep have you had? Are you hungry? Excited? Angry? Any of these can make a difference of one shutter speed step or more.

Fourth, direct-vision cameras seem to allow longer hand-held speeds than reflexes -- so much so that it is worth putting a DV finder on a reflex. I don't believe it's mirror slap, but I have to confess that I don't know what it is: just being able to see at the moment of exposure, I suspect.

Fifth, SHOOT ANYWAY. Shoot at 1/8 if you have to. The shot may be blurry but it may not. If you don't play, you can't win. You can even 'bracket', shooting at 1/8, 1/15 and 1/30 wide open: decide later which gives the best compromise on sharpness and shadow detail.

Cheers,

Roger (and take a look at the Photo School on www.rogerandfrances.com)

 

[Paula]

Thanks Fellas, that gives me loads more confidence to just go ahead drop the speed, take the shot and see what happens!!

Paula

 

[Stephanie Brim]

As Roger has pointed out, it's kind of different depending on the situation and it's also different depending on the person. I can shoot my Canon P at 1/15 of a second with visibly no camera shake with my 50mm lens. Some people can't do this. It all depends on how steady your hands are in the first place and then how steady they're going to be in the situation you find yourself photographing in. 🙂

 

[furcafe]

With practice & appropriately slow/inert subject matter, you should easily be able to get useable shots w/shutter speeds as low as 1/15th or 1/8th sec. Many/most of the same techniques used on the firing range (e.g., breath control & bracing have already been mentioned) work just as well for photography. You might want to try dry-firing your camera to practice your technique--1 advantage of using an RF is that you can see if you flinch or shake @ the time of exposure & work to eliminate that.

 

[Hektor]

Handheld speeds -

Handheld speeds -

Well put Roger, -- however-- I can put an an alternative scenario which I use myself to choose a handheld speed.

Firstly in good daylight use sunny/F16 --- there's usually no problem.

But, In artificial light, other than spotlights or studio, I've found 1/30, F2 and 400ASA to be a good rule of thumb. I dont know what EV that is but you might.

HOWEVER, --- I'm 58 and sometimes (rarely) get exited or out of breath, and so always try to use 1/100.

This means I need F1 or 1600ASA

I usually choose 1/100, F1.4 and 800ASA.

You can possibly tell me from that information what camera and lens I'm using and which standard BW film ?

sincerely, John C.

 

[zeos 386sx]

If a sharp picture is desired then the degree to which you enlarge your pictures makes a difference. If you plan full-frame enlargements to 5x7in then you can get away with very low shutter speeds. If you plan to enlarge above that try to find a way to brace the camera. Just kneeling and resting your elbow on a knee can make huge difference. Lean on a wall!

 

[principe azul]

As to SLRs, it depends. A Nikon F4s is heavy enough not to move much, and it has good mirror damping. I had an old Praktica that was clunkier - but in fairness I never tried it out. In a wind, I'd take my old F4s over my M4, but the M4 usually has the edge, though certainly not two stops' worth.

As to Roger's point about viewfinder blackout, I remember on photo.net someone saying it could be the shock of everything suddenly going blank that causes shake. Keeping both eyes open with an SLR could lessen the effect of this.

 

[kiev4a]

When I was younger I could handhold at 1/25 if the subject wasn't moving. Not every shot was good but there were some keepers. Now I have to really be careful to get the same results at 1.60th.

A lot depends on the camera, too. I think the Leica M is one of the best cameras for shooting at low speeds because it has some weight to help steady it and a smooth release

 

[rover]

Get the shot. With a 35mm lens on a Leica M you will surprise your self of how slow you can go. Take more care the slower you go, but when in doubt, release the shutter.

 

[ray_g]

Side (and OT) question: how about a 50mm on a DSLR -- in terms of handholding as related to focal length, would you consider it as a 50mm or 80mm lens? As the 1.6x is a crop factor, I would think 50mm. Is that correct?

 

[weisgrau]

Paula,

I think Roger has offered good advice and others too. I have been shooting Leica M for 40 years both a pro and amateur. I can on one day hold the camera still for 1/4 second and on another day for less. It depends as Roger says. But here is what I learned over the years.

Most horizontal movement comes from body sway either to and fro or sideways. You can minimize it by leaning against a wall, a tree, etc. When you cant lean, set your feet in the same stance that a rifle or pistol shooter uses - feet about shoulder width apart with one foot slightly breaking the front body plane and the other breaking the rear plane. It is about as steady a steady a standing position as you can find.

The other common camera movement is downward. Caused when you press the shutter release. It is probably the most common cause. The answer to that is to ignore the way the camera manual says to hold the camera. Instead os having your arms triangulate to from elbow to camera, place one hand under the camera and use it to focus. Let the camera sit on that hand like it is sitting on a platform. That is what you want under the camera - a platform.

Press the camera back against your face and forehead, again using the body for support. Finally, use the right hand trip the shutter and for nothing else but winding.

Keep both arms as close to your body as possible. When set that way your left arm meets the camera at 90 degrees and the right meets it at about 20 to 30 degrees.

If you do it that way, you will feel like a sculpture holding a camera, and you will reduce shake to a point that you can shoot at very slow shutter speeds.

 

[richard_l]

Side (and OT) question: how about a 50mm on a DSLR -- in terms of handholding as related to focal length, would you consider it as a 50mm or 80mm lens? As the 1.6x is a crop factor, I would think 50mm. Is that correct?

Whether or not a photographic image has acceptable sharpness is often judged by how it looks in an 8"x10" enlargement.

Suppose you have a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera. Now take a picture. Blow it up to 8"x10". Call it picture A. Now crop the negative so that it is the same size as the sensor in a DSLR. Blow that up to 8"x10", and call it picture B. Obviously any blur due to hand motion will be magnified more in picture B than in picture A.

Therefore with a 50mm lens on a DSLR, one must be more careful about camera motion than with a 50mm on a 35mm camera. Probably it amounts to considering the lens as having a focal length of 80mm, but I haven't worked out the math.

 

[peter_n]

I have reliably managed 1/15s with my M's. Last Sunday I took a couple of shots inside with a 28mm lens wide-open at f2.8 at 1/15 and they were pretty good. 1/8 not so reliably good. I hold the camera somewhat similarly to the way weisgrau describes, I'm always conscious of trying to create a platform against the shutter push.

 

[richard_l]

I have reliably managed 1/15s with my M's. Last Sunday I took a couple of shots inside with a 28mm lens wide-open at f2.8 at 1/15 and they were pretty good. 1/8 not so reliably good.

If you brace yourself against a wall or doorpost you can get it down to 1/8, even with a 50mm.

 

[kshapero]

1/4 sec. should be easily achievable if you're braced and breathing properly; that is, having expelled breath just before pressing the shutter. Using a Softrelease will also help significantly.

That is also my experience, too.

 

[jkelly]

There's some awfully good advice on this thread and I don't have much to add. I'll just say that I typically shoot indoors at 1/25 with 400 ASA film and a 50mm lens. This allows, with decent lighting, a deep enough depth of field so that shots don't get away while you focus.

 

[E_Aiken]

I've got insanely shakey hands - probably part of why I gravitate to Leicas, where I pop on a 35 and get up close, negating some of the shake... everytime i use my Canons with longer lenses I have to remember to keep that shutter speed high. If I go under 1/30th with anything under 25mm, I'm asking for it. I've managed sharp results at 1/4th with a 21, but I've got to think it was a fluke as typically 1/30th is my limit.