UltraLast UL-NP80 battery any good?

[RichC]

You can get a 1650 mAh battery in America: the UltraLast UL-NP80, made by the North American Battery Company, e.g.

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/EP5497356.htm

If anyone's using it, is it any good?

I'm particularly interested in this battery as:

• it's made in the US (or, if not, will ahave US quality control standards applied) - so should be higher quality than most NP80 batteries, which are often badly made in China

• it has the highest capacity of any NP80 that I've seen.

I can't get it sent over to the UK, but a friend is visiting the US and if they're decent batteries I'll ask her to buy a few for me.

 

[Edward Felcher]

It or it's components are probably not made in the USA.

I bought one at Fry's (an electronic store), and it works fine. Takes a little longer to charge in the R-D1 charger but after a few charge/discharge cycles has a very good capacity.

 

[Niantic]

I bought one from Ritz. It seems to be equal or greater than the original for battery life.
However it was in my Refurb RD-1 when the shutter froze. I haven't got up the nerve to use it since. Probably not related, but.....

 

[Edward Felcher]

It's not related. Don't be superstitious.

 

[sevres_babylone]

I have not tried this particular battery. I had a shutter freeze using a battery purchased bargainbasementbatteries.com, which had worked gloriously (as good as the original) for about four months until then. The shutter froze, but the screen worked and the meter did not show the battery as being "empty." After that the battery would not charge. I have not had similar problems with the Epson battery or the CTA one I purchased from B&H. I may be superstitious, but I believe that the failure was due to the battery. Sometimes that black cat crossing your path is a panther.

 

[Edward Felcher]

How many things have gone wrong with R-D1's using an Epson battery?

What nonsense.

 

[ZorkiKat]

I have not tried this particular battery. I had a shutter freeze using a battery purchased bargainbasementbatteries.com, which had worked gloriously (as good as the original) for about four months until then. The shutter froze, but the screen worked and the meter did not show the battery as being "empty." After that the battery would not charge. I have not had similar problems with the Epson battery or the CTA one I purchased from B&H. I may be superstitious, but I believe that the failure was due to the battery. Sometimes that black cat crossing your path is a panther.

I currently have three batteries for my R-D1s. One original Epson, and two generics of the same type. I had the same experience with one of the 'generics'- the shutter froze, but every other function in the camera worked. It allowed viewing of the shots, setting of functions, metering, and even formatting. The battery power indicator said the battery was full. But it would not let the shutter fire. It also wouldn't charge (or discharge, since it's been almost 3 months after it was last charged and it still had power, according to the camera's indicator).

This "defective" battery worked fine for about two months. Its twin still works without problems. Gives about the same as what the Epson battery gives.

It's a mystery why or what this battery is doing to make the shutter to fail to fire and yet allow all other functions to continue. Not much of a loss though. The generics just cost about US$2.00 apiece- not much of a loss.

Jay

 

[jlw]

This type of defect (shutter freezes, everything else works) was fairly common when electronic-shutter SLRs first appeared. Eventually it was traced to batteries that couldn't generate enough peak amperage to power the shutter through its full cycle. Other functions that didn't require as much amperage would continue to work fine, and the battery would test normally.

One likely culprit is an increase in the battery's internal resistance over time and repeated charges; that's why a battery might work fine at first but then cause a failure later, when you need a burst of peak amps but the battery can't pass enough current to complete its operating cycle.

I suspect Epson was aware of this failure potential and spec'ed its own batteries to assure enough current. I'm not going to tell anybody else what to do, but what I do is try to stick with my Epson batteries for picture-taking, and use my third-party batteries mostly to avoid losing the date setting while the Epson batteries are being charged. Of course I'd still use a third-party battery in an emergency, and I've never had any problems with the ones I have, but I'd rather not take any risks that I can avoid.

 

[Edward Felcher]

I would bet 10 R-D1's that the Epson batteries are plain, off-the-shelf NP-80 batteries with an Epson label on them.

I don't believe for a second that they are "spec'ed" or built any different than any other NP80. For all we know the Epson label might be stuck on batteries from various suppliers. I have 5 Epson batteries and two late ones look completely different from ones that came with an earlier camera.

The non-Epson batteries might suffer from substandard cells in the real rock bottom cheapies, but the Epson batteries can still have cell failure, shorts, whatever problems that beset other batteries.

Who has had shutter problems with the "Epson" batteries? I would guess an equal or greater number than those with generics.

It's an anecdotal problem that doesn't really make sense.

 

[bellyface]

great batteries. found the give me 450+ shots on my ultra II SD, with 3 second LCD display. If you buy from ritz or cameraworld, make sure you check out using google checkout, you get $10 off the price, both batteries came out to about $20 US, which is fine of course.

 

[Jim Watts]

I suspect Epson was aware of this failure potential and spec'ed its own batteries to assure enough current. I'm not going to tell anybody else what to do, but what I do is try to stick with my Epson batteries for picture-taking, and use my third-party batteries mostly to avoid losing the date setting while the Epson batteries are being charged. Of course I'd still use a third-party battery in an emergency, and I've never had any problems with the ones I have, but I'd rather not take any risks that I can avoid.

While not bad advice, I think the problem with sticking with Epson Batteries now, is I doubt they are still having any produced for the R-D1(s) and most of those out there are probably at least a year old. Li-Ion batteries deteriorate whether used or not. My over 2 year old Epson battery is still working OK, but now has about about 75% of its original capacity. Life expectancy of of Li-Ion batteries used or unused is thought to be about 3 years unless stored at cool temperatures.

 

[RichC]

I think the problem with sticking with Epson Batteries now, is [...] most of those out there are probably at least a year old. Li-Ion batteries deteriorate whether used or not.

Exactly why I'm not buying replacement Epson batteries but instead want an alternative with the same high standards of manufacture (some copies from Asia are very badly made).

 

[jlw]

I would bet 10 R-D1's that the Epson batteries are plain, off-the-shelf NP-80 batteries with an Epson label on them.

As you will have noticed from other posts in this thread, several other users have already made that bet -- and lost.

The Epson batteries have a higher mah rating than most generic NP-80s. One poster in a previous thread reports being told by an Epson technical support person (so apparently there's at least ONE in the universe!) that "it's important to use the Epson battery."

I think it's reasonable to suppose that Epson calculated the mah, peak current, and internal resistance specifications that would be necessary to operate the R-D 1 reliably, then chose an OEM vendor based on its ability to deliver those specs.

Now what the rest of us need to do is figure out what those specs are, and how to get the information from third-party vendors so we can compare their batteries. (One potential complication is that the first NP-80 you buy under the "XYZ Battery Co." brand name may come from one OEM vendor, while the next may come from a completely different vendor.)

Has anyone here with test equipment had any luck measuring the R-D 1's peak current draw during shutter firing? An accurate reading probably would require a fairly sophisticated instrument, not just a generic multimeter.

 

[Edward Felcher]

When I got my first R-D1 more than two years ago, I used (and am still using) several 1100mah Fuji batteries with no problems, as well as the Epson batteries.

The Epson battery is 1500mah. Most generics are 1400-1650mah. The Ritz/Fry's battery is 1650mah.

The other problem is that the marked capacity on most batteries is nonsense. An Asian manufacturer might simply label his 1300mah battery "2200mah" so that they can sell more on eBay and on the racks.

You will also have wild sample variation even with OEM batteries.

Of course Epson (and anyone else) will tell you to use their own $100 battery rather than a $5 generic.

You are still not addressing your superstition that a different brand battery is "causing" the shutter to lock permanently.

Again, how many have had shutter problems when using the original Epson battery?

It's not logical to assume that a substandard battery is wrecking shutters based on a few paranoid and anecdotal stories with no technical substantiation.

 

[RichC]

the marked capacity on most batteries is nonsense. You will also have wild sample variation even with OEM batteries.

Which is why I'm particularly interested in the North American Battery Co.'s battery - I'm assuming that US companies, like European ones, are subject to strict laws that govern standards of manufacture, labelling and safety, so a US lithium battery (even if the company sources it from Asia) is likely to be reasonably made, and if it's labelled 1650 mAh then it won't be 1100 mAh.

 

[Edward Felcher]

I can tell you for a fact that the Ritz 1650mah is a good battery and the one I bought has a noticeably longer capacity as opposed to the OEM Epson battery.

I have not done a scientific test but it lasts quite a bit longer than the 1500mah Epson battery on an average day of photography.

Honestly, I don't think the things are checked to any high standard or have better quality control.

 

[Edward Felcher]

Here are some of my batteries, used for years with various R-D1 cameras. The one on the bottom with the label showing is the Ritz/Fry's battery.

I have never had a single problem with any battery in any camera.

 

[Edward Felcher]

PS: The Ultralast battery has no lettering on the top of the battery.

It appears to be another cheapo Asian battery with a label stuck on it. It doesn't say where it was made. One Epson battery says "Made in China", the others say "Made in Japan".

The other batteries say "Made in China, Japanese cells".

All work fine. The Epson batteries don't appear to have any fairy dust sprinkled on them, and I looked carefully.

 

[sevres_babylone]

You are still not addressing your superstition that a different brand battery is "causing" the shutter to lock permanently.

The problem I reported was not a permanent lock, but a situation where the shutter froze, while some other functions worked. This is similar to ZorkiKat's experience. This has not happened to me with the Epson battery. It also has not happened with the generic purchased from B&H.

The other problem is that the marked capacity on most batteries is nonsense. An Asian manufacturer might simply label his 1300mah battery "2200mah" so that they can sell more on eBay and on the racks.

And might do the same with voltage as well.

As RichC says, referring to Jim Watt's note that the Epsons that are currently available are probably older batteries:

... I'm not buying replacement Epson batteries but instead want an alternative with the same high standards of manufacture (some copies from Asia are very badly made).

That is all most of us want. And that is why I find these postings about which ones have worked and which ones haven't to be useful. Alas, as has been noted, sellers switch suppliers, so that it is not possible to know that the generic you are buying is the same as was recommended. But relying on anecdotal evidence, be it of success or failure, is the best we can do at this point.

 

[Edward Felcher]

Agreed with all your points.

My point is, I just don't think there's anything special about the Epson batteries, or that the generic batteries are "dangerous".

Basically, you don't know what you're buying, but just because it has the name "Epson" on it doesn't guarantee you're getting the best quality.

I think all the stuff about some special current capacity being built in to the Epson batteries is imaginary. I think they're off-the-shelf NP-80's from various makers with an Epson label on them.

The Ultralast battery seems to have the longest life of all my batteries.