Fender73
Newbie
Alrighty, this is my first post here and perhaps it's a tad foolish but anyhow,
This completely centers around Vladimer Nachkebias images from India posted here and other places a few weeks ago. If you haven't seen them before they're here: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ISzy
I saw them originally on dpreview where he had the subject title suggesting they had been taken with a D200. I couldn't for the life of me figure out his photoshop technique but once he posted that he had taken them on film I went on a mad goosechase trying to figure what he had done.
He seems very cautious of revealing his technique (he has yet to reply to my email inquiry)
and given the quality of his images I'm not suprised. Anyhow, my question to all of you (and Nachkebia if you'd so oblige) is how do you think he achieved these shots? The slide film he's using (presumably Velvia) obviously takes care of the saturation levels, but the images are extremely creamy and contradict all the other ZM 25 and ZM 50 samples I've seen elsewhere (and I'm quite certain I've covered the entire internet by this point =P ). There's also quite pronounced vignetting in some shots which seem contrary to Zeiss standard (stacked filters/intelligently used polariser perhaps?) I didn't know anything whatsoever about rangefinders two weeks ago but I have wasted far too many hours in pursuit of understanding these images and the camera that took them since!
Alrighty, that's it I guess. Thanks for any thought you guys throw at this, and Nechkebia, I'd absolutely love any insight you'd care to share. It has been a very, very long while since I've been so enchanted by a series of images! Thank you for posting them!
This completely centers around Vladimer Nachkebias images from India posted here and other places a few weeks ago. If you haven't seen them before they're here: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ISzy
I saw them originally on dpreview where he had the subject title suggesting they had been taken with a D200. I couldn't for the life of me figure out his photoshop technique but once he posted that he had taken them on film I went on a mad goosechase trying to figure what he had done.
He seems very cautious of revealing his technique (he has yet to reply to my email inquiry)
and given the quality of his images I'm not suprised. Anyhow, my question to all of you (and Nachkebia if you'd so oblige) is how do you think he achieved these shots? The slide film he's using (presumably Velvia) obviously takes care of the saturation levels, but the images are extremely creamy and contradict all the other ZM 25 and ZM 50 samples I've seen elsewhere (and I'm quite certain I've covered the entire internet by this point =P ). There's also quite pronounced vignetting in some shots which seem contrary to Zeiss standard (stacked filters/intelligently used polariser perhaps?) I didn't know anything whatsoever about rangefinders two weeks ago but I have wasted far too many hours in pursuit of understanding these images and the camera that took them since!
Alrighty, that's it I guess. Thanks for any thought you guys throw at this, and Nechkebia, I'd absolutely love any insight you'd care to share. It has been a very, very long while since I've been so enchanted by a series of images! Thank you for posting them!
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Nachkebia
Well-known
Yeah baby! 
You asked generic question I can answer it very genericly too, I used kodak e100VS with provia, no post process at all, if you ask me specific questions I can answer it! I never hide any of my technices, no filters used, no fancy vignetting...
You asked generic question I can answer it very genericly too, I used kodak e100VS with provia, no post process at all, if you ask me specific questions I can answer it! I never hide any of my technices, no filters used, no fancy vignetting...
telenous
Well-known
Vlademir, do you post elsewhere than just in RFF?
Infidel! Infidel!
Infidel! Infidel!
Nachkebia
Well-known
telenous said:Vlademir, do you post elsewhere than just in RFF?
Infidel! Infidel!
Yeah I posted on dpreview made fun of them, bunch of geeks with cameras and photoshop ceritficate
Nachkebia
Well-known
Fender73 : If you ask me on specific picture, I can actualy tell you which lens and film I used, if it helps
telenous
Well-known
Zeiss makes it a selling point that all their lenses in the ZM line-up have a uniform colour/signature rendition. Be that as it may, from the many photos I have seen on the web or on print, of all the Zeiss lenses, the Planar 50 (one of which I have used for a shortwhile myself) and the Biogon 25 stand out for me. Of course these are the very lenses Vlademir is using. And, of course, the perennial interest with his photos boils down to the his outstanding compositional skills.
Nachkebia
Well-known
Indeed zeiss has very specific tonality on color, recently I have recieved my leica 28mm elmarit asph, I have not tryed yet with slide but on negative it gives very warm tone, leica is sligtly more balanced, zeiss is colder, but yeah it definetly has alot of sparkle
Fender73
Newbie
Hahah gosh that was a quick reply, thanks.
Alrighty first up: http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india004.jpg
Where the heck did that vignetting come from?
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india020.jpg
The vignetting in the top left is awesome and doesn't seem to make sense, and all the kids faces appear perfectly in focus but creamy - or something. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is.
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india033.jpg
This is my favourite of the bunch, I don't really have any questions, but it's a really nice shot.
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india036.jpg
The glow on the girls face is amazing and seems to defy the rest of the image.
That's just a few, I think what's driving me batty about these shots is that I can't seem to affirm any cause and effect relationships here (aside from the saturation) and the analytical side of my mind which is so attracted to photography can't just let that sit! There's definitely some intangible quality beyond input and output here, you've got a really amazing touch.
Thanks for the time,
Alrighty first up: http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india004.jpg
Where the heck did that vignetting come from?
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india020.jpg
The vignetting in the top left is awesome and doesn't seem to make sense, and all the kids faces appear perfectly in focus but creamy - or something. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is.
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india033.jpg
This is my favourite of the bunch, I don't really have any questions, but it's a really nice shot.
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/india036.jpg
The glow on the girls face is amazing and seems to defy the rest of the image.
That's just a few, I think what's driving me batty about these shots is that I can't seem to affirm any cause and effect relationships here (aside from the saturation) and the analytical side of my mind which is so attracted to photography can't just let that sit! There's definitely some intangible quality beyond input and output here, you've got a really amazing touch.
Thanks for the time,
Nachkebia
Well-known
Check this image out, this was shot on miday, overcast light with negative film!!! I find this amazing
zuikologist
.........................
Fender73 - welcome to the forum. A thought provoking first post!
Some of the Zeiss glass is known for some vignetting - it has been covered on the forum quite a lot.
They are excellent photos - whatever they were taken with.
Some of the Zeiss glass is known for some vignetting - it has been covered on the forum quite a lot.
They are excellent photos - whatever they were taken with.
Nachkebia
Well-known
I will answer for each image, as for this part
most amazing thing about photography for me is that even at same location same lens and same film 2 photographers will take two different pictures, as if there is nothing you can change, but for me it is amazing how picture can be influenced by the mood you are into, you can imagine something in your head and amazingly it will be reflected on the photo, the mood, the color, the feeling you can call it anything!
My english is bad! sorry
I can answer very abstracty
most amazing thing about photography for me is that even at same location same lens and same film 2 photographers will take two different pictures, as if there is nothing you can change, but for me it is amazing how picture can be influenced by the mood you are into, you can imagine something in your head and amazingly it will be reflected on the photo, the mood, the color, the feeling you can call it anything!My english is bad! sorry
Nachkebia
Well-known
Fender73 said:
I don`t have a clue why vignetting is there, I shot this with 25mm biogon on provia 100F or velvia 50, I find wide angles to vignette on slides more than usual
Fender73 said:
I don`t think it is vignetting
it is just a shade from the sun I also used 25mm and provia 100f for this, they are indeed in focus but what makes them creamy is open aperture and motion of theres!Fender73 said:
Thank you
Fender73 said:
This was shot with 35mm biogon on kodak e100 VS, wide open I think, I don`t know about the glow but lighting is generaly amazing in mumbai
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Nachkebia said:Check this image out, this was shot on miday, overcast light with negative film!!! I find this amazing
Hey, sorry to be nitpicking but now in the ugly Dutch wintertime, I wish I'd be living at that place where overcast light has such strong shadows
)On the topic: I think the high saturation and the strong foreground colours make most of the shots.
Nachkebia
Well-known
Btw Pherdinand why all your images look goldie?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
) okthose "all my images" were shot in the beautiful end of summer, not in the last 2 months.
Iggy
Member
The shots from your India trip are luscious Vladimer. Twenty years ago I might have been jealous but now I can just grin from ear to ear
p.s. What scanner do you use?
p.s. What scanner do you use?
Nachkebia
Well-known
Iggy : Thank you! I used nikon coolscan 5000
bertil.david@wa
Member
And what b&w film do you use?
thx
thx
SDK
Exposing since 1969.
The Biogon 25mm does have more light fall off than a normal 50mm or 35mm lens, it's inherent to wide angle designs especially with RF lenses, and slide film or contrasty negative film will exaggerate the vignetting. If you want to avoid this, lower contrast color negative film like Kodak Portra 160NC, 400NC, or Fuji Pro 160S or Pro 400H will moderate the effect. I also usually rate my film at 1 or 1 & 1/3 stops slower than the box rating. A bit of overexposure compresses the tones of the center and corner together a bit; it makes the corners "catch up" to the center. Optical printing of negatives also helps, because the enlarging lens also has light fall off, but it's negative to that of the taking lens, and lightens the corners. Sometimes, I do have to dodge the corners of negatives taken with the Biogon 21mm or 25mm on contrasty films like Kodak 400UC or Fuji Pro 160C. In photoshop you can also correct this vignetting if you are so inclined.
You cannot use overexposure with slide film, obviously. And worse, optical printing of slide film on reversal paper also compounds light fall off, making the corners darker, which is one reason printing slides from internegatives onto negative paper is sometimes better, because you can correct contrast problems more easily in negative printing.
The 21mm and 25mm Biogons are superb lenses, among my favorites. There are some color balance differences from Leica lenses, but most of these are easily corrected in printing.
You cannot use overexposure with slide film, obviously. And worse, optical printing of slide film on reversal paper also compounds light fall off, making the corners darker, which is one reason printing slides from internegatives onto negative paper is sometimes better, because you can correct contrast problems more easily in negative printing.
The 21mm and 25mm Biogons are superb lenses, among my favorites. There are some color balance differences from Leica lenses, but most of these are easily corrected in printing.
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Nachkebia
Well-known
bertil.david@wa : I used tri-x with FP4, Thank you
SDK : I wish I could ever print any of my image opticly I don`t even know if it is possible to print it by hand, I would not mind reading about it? is it still possible to get chemicals? Thank you
SDK : I wish I could ever print any of my image opticly
I don`t even know if it is possible to print it by hand, I would not mind reading about it? is it still possible to get chemicals? Thank you