uneven development

[dfoo]

I'm been posting on an ongoing thread on APUG (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/60831-uneven-development-3.html) about issues I've been having recently with uneven development. I want to ask here too, because I'm really at the end of my rope. Here is a couple of samples. These two shots are from different cameras, shot at different times, but both have the same light streaks. The streaks correspond to the solid sections of the rebate. I develop using plastic reels, and was originally using 5 inversions every 30 seconds and started getting these issues. For these rolls of film, I used 2 inversions taking roughly 5 seconds every 30 seconds. They were developed in XTOL 1+1 @ 20C for 9 minutes. The film is TX400.

 

[payasam]

These things generally happen only with short developing times and insufficient agitation.

 

[charjohncarter]

35mm? Boy that second one is severe. I wish I could be some help. I thought it was maybe over and too vigorous agitation from your posts here and on APUG, but this really seems like it is worse. If you have a photo friend (or even mail the roll to someone here); shoot a roll, give him/her the tank, reel, developer, fixer, etc and see how it comes out. Also, the negative doesn't look gray/whitish in the effected areas? If that is the case, check that your fixer is new/full strength.

 

[Tom A]

The streaks look like "cavitation" marks from the sprockets. They do correspond to the sprocket holes (8 per frame). Shoot a couple of rolls more and try a/ continious agitation for 6 min and b/ increase time and reduce agitation (10-11 min and only agitate every 2 minutes - a couple of gentle turns 5-10 sec). This should give you an idea if it is caused by your agitation or it comes from the reels.
When I agitate I do a 1/4 turn - flip the tank upside down (ensure that the developer/fixer has time to "flow" thouroughly from bottom to top) twice and set it down. It usually takes 8-10 seconds to do.
If you "rotate" the tank too fast. the liquid is forced through the sprocket holes almost like a funnel and can cause uneven streaks like this.

 

[David William White]

I'd second John on the insufficient fix theory. It's quite common, and is readily testable and treatable by refixing. I suggest you start there, because you can quickly confirm or dismiss and then deal with agitation, if necessary.

The theory is that insufficiently fixed film, while still wound on the developing reel, will cause light to streak through the sprocket holes and onto the next loop of film. Just imagine shining a flashlight on a wound roll. Light damage will be greatest where it shines through a sprocket hole onto the film behind it.

I think this is far more likely, and I've seen it enough to be confident. Agitation issues are rare with standard developers and inversion tanks, unless you develop at higher temperatures for much shorter times AND shake the bejesus out of it (or not at all).

So just refix in replenished fixer and the problem should clear up.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Xtol 1+1 for 9 min @20 C is my standard for Tri-x but I do gentle inversions like Tom as suggested. To be on the safe side on the fix end of the equation, leave the roll in for a few minutes more and test to see if the fix is not exhausted.

Bill

 

[dfoo]

I really doubt its fix. The fix I'm using is very fresh (only 4 rolls through it), and I tested the fix with a film clip and it clears quite quickly. However, to test I'll take a strip and re-fix in some different fixer (my paper fix) and see whether the streaks go away.

I have another theory btw, tell me if this one makes sense. All of this particular batch of film was mailed from China when I moved back home last year. Is it possible that it was X-rayed and that is causing the streaking?

 

[dfoo]

Ahha! I just re-fixed a couple of the worst strips and what do you know? It looks like the issue has gone. I've put the film in the dryer and can say for sure in 30 minutes or so. If its fixed (nice pun!) that would be awesome! Although I don't know _how_ that fix is bad. I just made it from a bottle of Kodak rapid fix... anyway, thats going in the trash, and out with some new fix!

 

[David William White]

If that were so, I think it would be uniformly fogged. Only takes 10 minutes to refix & rinse, so that is the first order of business. The we'll theorize.

 

[David William White]

Ahha! I just re-fixed a couple of the worst strips and what do you know? It looks like the issue has gone. I've put the film in the dryer and can say for sure in 30 minutes or so. If its fixed (nice pun!) that would be awesome! Although I don't know _how_ that fix is bad. I just made it from a bottle of Kodak rapid fix... anyway, thats going in the trash, and out with some new fix!

Yup. But no worries...fixer depletes as it saturates with silver. It's natural that fixing times get longer or you need to replenish. You just need to keep watch out for signs of exhaustion and top up when necessary. No need to trash the batch.

 

[dfoo]

That fix was very new. Only 4 (or perhaps 8) rolls through it, and it was made fresh from the concentrate. Furthermore, it was the last few rolls I've noticed this streaking. Since the fix was fresh, I discounted that... It was the last of a bottle of rapid fix, that I guess is 18 months old. Anyway, its down the drain now. I remade some fresh fix, and just developed another roll. Once the strips I re-fixed are dry, if the streaks are gone then I'll refix the other 8 rolls of film. Its too bad I've already cut it up, and sleeved it all!!

 

[David William White]

Remember, there is no 'standard' fix time. Ilford & Kodak just say twice the clear time, whatever that is. The first couple of rolls you did, maybe, say 5 minutes, might have just been enough, but a little later, maybe 6 minutes were required, but you were still only doing 5, hence insufficient fixing. So no need to pour it down the drain.

Just a note, in case this isn't obvious: you don't need to respool the film. It just needs to be submerged in fixer to get rid of all the silver you didn't need in your composition. So just drop the cut strips into a tray (your paper tray) or whatever for more time (5 minutes...10 minutes), and you don't have to do this in the dark or anything.

 

[colker]

I have seen something similar happening on reloaded bulk film.. static electricity acumulating on cloth and discharging on film.
it ruined about 20 films o took on a month long trip in Peru.:bang:

 

[dfoo]

...
Just a note, in case this isn't obvious: you don't need to respool the film. It just needs to be submerged in fixer to get rid of all the silver you didn't need in your composition. So just drop the cut strips into a tray (your paper tray) or whatever for more time (5 minutes...10 minutes), and you don't have to do this in the dark or anything.

Yes, however, I'll probably respool it anyway, otherwise its too difficult to dry. Also my dryer takes spools, as opposed to hanging film.

 

[David William White]

So...that's two coffee's you owe me 🙂

 

[Ronald M]

I find fix takes more agitation than film and do not be gentle.

Plastic tank? Be sure to use the funnel from the funnel top to the bottom. The developer fills bottom up and does not run over the film. Use twist stick for first agitation. After that inversion. Use only enough liquids to cover the reel. There should be lots of empty space at the top for liguids to circulate into and then back down.

 

[dfoo]

Ok, it was the fix! The scans of the fixed film look great. I'll post one tomorrow.

 

[Tom A]

I use an old Color drum agitator for fixing. It rotates twice in one direction and the goes twice in opposite direction as well as slight rocking motion. I find that gives me good fixing times (usually twice clear time). Paterson tanks (3 and 5 reel tanks fit on it). Beats standing there flipping the tank, thats for sure.

 

[David William White]

Yes, however, I'll probably respool it anyway, otherwise its too difficult to dry. Also my dryer takes spools, as opposed to hanging film.

Is that something you made?

 

[Ronald M]

In case Tom A does not come back, a Chromega or Unicolor drum roller will do it.