Unf*ing Believable! Sinar 6x6 Digital SLR

jlw said:
You know things in photography have gotten kind of weird when the back is the big-ticket item, and the camera body and lens are just comparatively inexpensive accessories.
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I don't see that as that surprising at all. Photography is about recording images on a medium, and the medium is at least as important as the rest of the photographic system. If we look at the history of photographic technology, gear geeks tend to view advances in camera technology as the driving force - a 1985 Summicron is so much better than a 1935 Elmar. However, advances in film technology matter at least as much, if not more - it makes a real difference to have ISO 1600 vs. ISO 32 colour film, to get much better colour fidelity with slide film, or to get 800 lpm out of a 25 ASA microfilm. I don't see why this should be any different with digital media. OK, the back is more expensive now, but that's why you buy it only once and let it amortise itself. That's no option for hobbyists, of course, because there is no amortisation except for the cost of film, and that's why hobbyists like us complain about prohibitive pricing of professional gear, but let's face it, that's like a hobbyist photographer with a Paxette in 1959 complaining that the Nikon F body is so expensive.

jlw said:
It's kind of like checking out the window sticker on a new Porsche and seeing that the engine is $49.95, the body and chassis are $35, the interior is ten bucks, and the left and right door handles cost $65,000 apiece. As a package, you still get your money's worth in terms of performance... it's just the distribution that's a bit hard for us old-timers to get our heads around...
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It's more like that everybody is now using electric cars with all the engine equipment in the wheels and a big battery, so when checking out the window sticker on the new electric Porsche you find that the wheels that used to cost $1000 each are now $10.000 each, and the battery that used to be a $100 item now costs $25.000. And now the drivers of old combustion-engine Porsches point their finger at that and saying "Look at the weird wheel and battery prices these days." :)

Philipp
 
jlw said:
You know things in photography have gotten kind of weird when the back is the big-ticket item, and the camera body and lens are just comparatively inexpensive accessories.
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Except that the back replaces a lot of film & processing. And when we're talking 120, that ain't cheap. So in once sense it's not weird. And yeah, there's the whole argument of post computer power & processing time, but with a good photographer and the quality of the files, it still makes sense.
 
are there even any full 6x6 digital backs yet, i thought all of them were croped or 6x4.5?

this isn't really surprising, have none of you been paying attention to what hasselblad, leaf, phase one, and others have been doing the past few years?
 
rogue_designer said:
I do like that its full frame 6x6 (or appears to be) - still waiting for 6x7 and 4x5" (single shot - non scanning)
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It's able to handle a 6x6 back if they are eventually manufactured, I'm not sure any digital back is this big yet.

From the Sinar info: "The Sinar Hy6 is currently the only medium format AF camera that not only covers the usual 6x4.5 format, but also the classic 6x6 format and thereby has still room for even larger CCDs..."


I too am waiting for 4x5 (or larger) single-shot backs :)

George.
 
Isn't this old news? On medium format forums they've been talking about the Hy6 for ages.

AFAIK the camera is going to be sold in three different versions sold by Sinar, Leaf and Rollei (F&H). I'm not really if the three versions differ in anything other than different digibacks (from sinar and leaf) and different name tags (Rollei Hy6, Sinar H6, Leaf AFi). I think I've read somewhere on the mf forum at pnet a while ago how much the film version is going to cost but I can't remember the amount. I'll look into it again if I ever win in the lottery :)

edit: ah....I see the luminous landscape link already includes this information :)
 
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Jamie123 said:
Isn't this old news? On medium format forums they've been talking about the Hy6 for ages.

AFAIK the camera is going to be sold in three different versions sold by Sinar, Leaf and Rollei (F&H). I'm not really if the three versions differ in anything other than different digibacks (from sinar and leaf) and different name tags (Rollei Hy6, Sinar H6, Leaf AFi). I think I've read somewhere on the mf forum at pnet a while ago how much the film version is going to cost but I can't remember the amount. I'll look into it again if I ever win in the lottery :)

edit: ah....I see the luminous landscape link already includes this information :)
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A Rollei 6000 AF system goes for about $5000, now.
 
While the cost of the camera seems at first glance outrageous, it is actually quite reasonable compared to similar offerings - like others pointed out, digital backs for medium format systems have always been very expensive. A fashion photographer will snap this up in a heartbeat and it will pay for itself within a month or two. We as hobby photographers will have to wait until prices come way down on these - if indeed they ever will come down. It's a very cool camera and it will push the envelope further, which is good for all of us.
 
raid said:
I will stick with my used cameras and lenses.
For $32,000, I can do better things in life than buying a camera. Any camera.
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Now now: wouldn't it be nice to have a $32,000 limited edition of a limited edition of a super-rare limited run of a special batch Nikon RF? Black, not black and chrome, mind you. :angel:

It is an obscene amount of money for those who cannot "justify" the price tag. It's all about priorities. And money, of course :)
 
Gabriel,

If I had lots of money freed up and waiting to be spent or if I were a professional photographer who could translate such a buy into additional net profits, then having such a Sinar in a studio setting would be perfect. It also would be great for architectural photography and fashion photography.

Sad conclusion: None of the above applies to me.
 
Something else came to mind just now: Sinar Bron is positioning itself in a rather-battered MF marlet that's lost a few key players over the last several years. On the digital side, the market's been nibbled away by Canon's flagship dSLRs which have been in double-digit MP territory for a while now, with Nikon now falling in close behind (and Sinar caters to that market as well with their nifty bellows system). SB's main beat has been LF. Think they're getting a bit nervous regarding their home turf?


- Barrett
 
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sitemistic said:
Advertising photographers shot for years with Hasselblads and Kodacrome. The images could have hardly been better.

I don't care if you can amortize it or not, $32,000 is a crazy silly price for a camera! What kind of advertising work really requires a camera like this?
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I've had several clients that I "fired" as they were more and more requesting taking a CD of images home after the shoot. I explained that even if I were shooting digitally (which made almost zero sense for what we were shooting) I wouldn't do that for them, since it wouldn't give me sufficient time to ensure the highest quality images were the ones selected and post-processed.

If you're shooting catalog work starting with an all digital capture and workflow pays for itself very quickly too.

For my work. I still build in time for processing and scanning. And *most* of my clients deal with it just fine.
 
sitemistic said:
I'm sure they will sell thousands of these at $30,000 a copy. Camera pricing is simply becoming disconnected from reality.
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No. Why? You mostly pay 300% more fore getting 30% more. Think Voigtlander/Leica, or Toyota/Mercedes. These cameras are not made for amateurs like me. They're made for pro's who need that resolution and quality. There's a photo studio near my home, specialized in product packshots for advertising, which has such gear. The guy there switched from film medium format to digital medium format (Hasselblad H2 and H3D), because he needs the high resolution for giant ads, and because digital speeds up his workflow. His jobs pay his equipment, by far. I don't think his business is going bad. He's bought a Canon 5D with 85/1.2 "just for private snapshots".

(Nevertheless he's borrowed my R-D1s once, and he liked it...)

Didier
 
I wonder what proportion of $20-30K digital setups is owned by individual photographers or studios as opposed to rental houses. Rental on a high-end digital back is on the order of $500-600/day or $1500-1800/week.
 
I find this one more interesting: http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/mp1.php

This will use a variety of lenses by various adapters and formats to 6x4.5. Of course, most of us are only drooling over our keyboards at this. Who but a few professionals will invest in this. Most will lease or rent this camera and use their existing lenses. Hmmmm, wonder what the cost would be to rent it for a long weekend and use my Zeiss and Leica M and R lenses on it!
 
My thoughts exactly. As w/the movie industry industry, I'm guessing most pro still shooters rent such "bleeding edge" equipment for specific jobs rather than buy it.

David Goldfarb said:
I wonder what proportion of $20-30K digital setups is owned by individual photographers or studios as opposed to rental houses. Rental on a high-end digital back is on the order of $500-600/day or $1500-1800/week.
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