Unusual engraving on conversion

[Dralowid]

Can anyone help identify the origins of the unusual engraving of the serial number on this camera? Is this 'factory' or 'third party'?

It is a II converted to IIIa but retaining an old style II 'top housing' converted to take dioptre adjustment.

Baseplate marked open/close and Germany, small tripod bush, top housing ('lavatory bowl' shape) in far better condition than the rest of the camera.

Any hints welcome.

Michael

 

[Vince Lupo]

From the numbers I was able to source, the camera was originally a Standard (21-10-32), so they had to use a whole new top plate for this conversion. Don't know about the serial number engraving though, but I'm sure it was probably done by Leitz.

Is it me, or does the camera have a synch at the back of the top plate by the accessory shoe?

 

[Erik van Straten]

I think it is a post-war conversion with an early (1932-1934) top-cover-part. These were only given out by the factory when the old part was send in. The number of the old part was engraved in the new part, wich was then send off to the customer. The old part was destroyed afterwards.
However, the style of engraving is not in the usual Leitz way, the numbers are too big and there is neither No nor Nr before the number. It is clear that the conversion was carried out by another "Werkstatt" that "somehow" got the part, engraved it and used it for the conversion, presumably with the installation of a flash synch.

Erik.

 

[john neal]

Michael,

I think Erik has it right on this one, probably a conversion done by a Leitz agent somewhere that managed to get hold of a genuine (unissued) top cover. Given it has the small tripod screw, I wonder if it could have been Leitz N.Y.?

It would have had a new shell to accomodate the slow speed dial too - hence the strap lugs. I wonder if there are any marks inside to indicate the source of the conversion?

Interseting camera, BTW.

 

[Roger Hicks]

During WW2 Mortimer Street did quite a few conversions to make 'old, useless' cameras more useful, sometimes even cannibalizing dummies. Almost certainly, Leitz NY did the same.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Dralowid]

Thanks for the info and yes, I got my numbers wrong! It is indeed sync'd neatly just under the shoe. So I will assume a non factory conversion...perhaps converted twice...Standard to II and II to IIIa? Whatever... it is a bit of a melange.

...John, still in exotic climes or returned?

Michael

 

[john neal]

...John, still in exotic climes or returned?

Michael,

Back for a week now 🙁

I h ave a few B&W shots from the II to upload, plus one up the spout to develop. Mostly CV25 shots, but one or two Summar ones. I used an old meter and it seems to have been a stop or two off, as many are underexposed. The best results were based on my estimates (!). I'll get some scanned and posted soon.

Where did you find the conversion?

 

[Dralowid]

I've had it a while but only 'dug it out' recently. I think I may have bought it from Lee's (the movie specialists) in Holborn some years ago. Having crossed the emotional divide by returning the II back to you I am thinking about a little rationalisation of the collection. Mind you, many of the Leicas I own are comparable with the rusting Fiat at the back of the car lot.

I find it awkward to pass on cameras in poor condition, the buyer will never be happy with his lot unless the price is so low that it simpler to keep them.

Welcome back to a Britain gripped with Royal Wedding fever, public service cuts and a fear that we go the same way as Ireland...must be Christmas!

Michael

 

[Dralowid]

Thinking more about this camera I left work early and had time to open it up.

Curiouser and curiouser...

The chassis number is 90816 which was a II (top housing was 102506 which was a Standard) and yet the bottom part of the shutter crate looks very much like a III... three for the price of one!

Whatever, interesting and apart from some occasional and completly irrational slow speed hesitation it functions well.

But I'll never look at it in the same light again...not one for the purists!

Michael

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Michael,

It sounds more and more like a Mortimer Street Special.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Dralowid]

Roger,

Can you tell me more about 'Mortimer Street specials'?

All I remember about Mortimer Street was sending my trusty III back there in the late '60s because the shutter release button fell off (?!) and having it replaced with one that was truly out of keeping.

Hard to believe I know, have you ever tried to get that damned button off that shaft without messing things up?

Michael

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Michael,

I first got involved in Leica collecting in the 1970s, when, obviously, there were far more people around who remembered the 1940s. In about 1970 I bought a 9cm fat barrel, coupled (in itself unusual) with a seriai number which, uniquely, ended in both '*' (re-used serial number) and 'a' (attrape = dummy).

The general consensus at the time was this it was probably made at Mortimer Street during WW2, and that this was not unusual, as I said in an earlier post. As I paid £11:10s for it, split 50/50 with my girlfriend, it wasn't a deliberate fake.

Unfortunately Colin Glanfield, from whom I learned a great deal of what I know about Leica history, and George Gordon Carr, are both now dead, and I'm sufficiently remote from the Leica-collecting scene that I'm no longer in regular touch with others from that era: Colin's brother Malcolm, Dr. Wright, Ivor Matanle and Paul-Henry Van Hasbroeck.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but if you write to AP, Ivor might help.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Dralowid]

Dear Roger,

Many thanks for the advice. I'll make contact with those 'still in the know' that I know and see where it leads but it sounds like this a specifically UK matter.

Gone are the days of the Wallace Heaton back room, Hove, Campkins side window in Bond Street and Negretti & Zambia...to name but a few.

Sigh.

Michael
(who finds that the aquisition of a scanner promotes a nostalgia that is hardly creative...!)

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Roger,

Many thanks for the advice. I'll make contact with those 'still in the know' that I know and see where it leads but it sounds like this a specifically UK matter.

Gone are the days of the Wallace Heaton back room, Hove, Campkins side window in Bond Street and Negretti & Zambia...to name but a few.

Sigh.

Michael
(who finds that the aquisition of a scanner promotes a nostalgia that is hardly creative...!)

Dear Michael,

Aye, and Williamsons of Sauchiehall Street and Franks of the Saltmarket and... But yes, I'd say it's probaby a UK 'official' but not 'factory' camera.

Cheers,

R.