specular
Member
hth said:Hmm, I have been thinking of how much I need to sell to get an M8, and it will be quite a lot! Then there is the problem of when the M8 gets old, some 5-10 years in the future, it might need to be replaced again with something else that is very expensive, and at that point I have nothing more to sell that is worth anything!
Good point!
John Camp
Well-known
Kodak upgraded the sensor in it's FF Nikon-based DSLR at a user cost of $1500, and I believe the replacement sensor was sourced from a different factory. So it can be done -- but Kodak was essentially fixing a problem, and profit (for anybody) was not an issue. But Leica's a business, and needs profit to survive. Once you figure profit into it, then cost becomes a problem. If you figure $1500 for a non-profit replacement, then, after you build in profit (all up and down the line, starting with the sensor provider, ending with the local retailer,) and all the other overhead, I doubt that you could do it $3,000, and probably more.
But I think it could be done.
JC
But I think it could be done.
JC
ZeissFan
Veteran
The question is if the camera's electronics are modular so you approach plug and play capability.
And then, do the connectors/pins in the camera coincide with the new device? If so, then it would be easier and less expensive. However, if it becomes a matter of replacing all of the electronics, that could become costly.
It also might help (although it wouldn't guarantee compatibility) if the new sensor was from the same manufacturer.
The other thing is how much is the user willing to pay to upgrade rather than replace? I can see how a Leica user would be more willing to upgrade, whereas most users of the entry level cameras would simply buy a new one.
Most of the lower-priced SLRs have limited shutter life, while you would expect the shutter in a Leica to last significantly longer.
Certainly, there are no promises, but Leica would do well to consider this for the future.
By the way, Phi Askey's site said the M8 uses a Kodak sensor. I thought it was reported that the M8 would use a sensor from a German maker.
And then, do the connectors/pins in the camera coincide with the new device? If so, then it would be easier and less expensive. However, if it becomes a matter of replacing all of the electronics, that could become costly.
It also might help (although it wouldn't guarantee compatibility) if the new sensor was from the same manufacturer.
The other thing is how much is the user willing to pay to upgrade rather than replace? I can see how a Leica user would be more willing to upgrade, whereas most users of the entry level cameras would simply buy a new one.
Most of the lower-priced SLRs have limited shutter life, while you would expect the shutter in a Leica to last significantly longer.
Certainly, there are no promises, but Leica would do well to consider this for the future.
By the way, Phi Askey's site said the M8 uses a Kodak sensor. I thought it was reported that the M8 would use a sensor from a German maker.
specular
Member
I think these are compelling quotes from Mr Puts' review.
"Most M-users (as can be inferred from the many news groups entries) assume that the optical superiority of the M lenses can be migrated to the digital domain without any problem. Such a view disregards the many issues involved....The inherent superiority of the Leica lenses (the 2/75 is definitely a better performer than the Canon zoomlenses used here) cannot be capitalized on."
"You might start a war about the differences in resolution: for me the analysis of this level of details is input for the theoretical discussion and has limited practical value. See the model pictures. You will be hard pressed to get these details on the printer."
"Where the rest of the photographic world is preparing for the deep changes that follow in the wake of the technological possibilities, Leica has an eye on values from the past...There is nothing wrong with this approach, but Leica now knows very well that a broader product line with more modern products is required to survive. The Leica M in whatever livery is a niche product. "
I guess it boils down to if you like the more compact size of the M8, have M lenses, prefer the traditional simplicity and can spare the $5000, then it's a no-brainer. If it's a wash, I might be better served going with a Canon 5D and an IS lens, but continuing to enjoy my M6 with film.
"Most M-users (as can be inferred from the many news groups entries) assume that the optical superiority of the M lenses can be migrated to the digital domain without any problem. Such a view disregards the many issues involved....The inherent superiority of the Leica lenses (the 2/75 is definitely a better performer than the Canon zoomlenses used here) cannot be capitalized on."
"You might start a war about the differences in resolution: for me the analysis of this level of details is input for the theoretical discussion and has limited practical value. See the model pictures. You will be hard pressed to get these details on the printer."
"Where the rest of the photographic world is preparing for the deep changes that follow in the wake of the technological possibilities, Leica has an eye on values from the past...There is nothing wrong with this approach, but Leica now knows very well that a broader product line with more modern products is required to survive. The Leica M in whatever livery is a niche product. "
I guess it boils down to if you like the more compact size of the M8, have M lenses, prefer the traditional simplicity and can spare the $5000, then it's a no-brainer. If it's a wash, I might be better served going with a Canon 5D and an IS lens, but continuing to enjoy my M6 with film.
oscroft
Veteran
Eh? It's not even close, surely? I thought the finest grain film was capable of more than 20mp?
MarkM6
Established
Comments...
Comments...
Vince,
You are right! Isn't the M8 the best digital rangefinder compare to "the rest" of the digital rangefinders?
You do understand the challenges it took to make a digital rangefinder in such a compact body? If so, give it a benifit of the doubt for heaven sake!
Comments...
VinceC said:
Vince,
You are right! Isn't the M8 the best digital rangefinder compare to "the rest" of the digital rangefinders?
You do understand the challenges it took to make a digital rangefinder in such a compact body? If so, give it a benifit of the doubt for heaven sake!
DaveSee
shallow depth of field
+1Bike Tourist said:
While what we know(sic) of "full frame" now, now requires a very large camera, more battery, bigger(heavier) glass... the legacy of film.
What could be, transistionally, is the introduction of a new "full frame" with all the imaging potential of film... using old and future lenses, and improved camera OS/firmware... oh, and with improved energy consumption as well.
Not saying Leica has done this, but they've cut film in half before and made it work!
rgds,
Dave
Matthias
Newbie
Press release: 1954, Leica launches M3 camera. Upgrades into the next century will be offered.
halabar
Member
oscroft said:
Sigh..... not this again....
It all depends on how the film is scanned.
The question should be:
"Does the M8 at 10MP equal or surpass my scanned film?" If you are scanning your film on a flatbed?.. Yes. If you are scanning your 400ASA film on a $2,000 deskstop scanner, perhaps. If you are scanning your 100ASA developed in Microphen or something like that on a Heidelburg drum scanner?.. a resounding NO.
Ultimately, it all depends on what you are willing (or able) to do to scan your film?
And if you're using a wet-lab, then its a moot point...
saxshooter
Well-known
According to an item in dpreview, the M8 sensor is made by Kodak, not Leica. In the past (I've used two generations of digital SLR cameras with Kodak CCD's) Kodak has been very good with firmware upgrades, and hopefully this will continue with their relationship with Leica. So sensor replacement (short of a full frame alternative) can be offset by improved in camera software processing, hopefully.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Sometimes you Leicaphiles really leave me stunned.
WTF? The M3 wasn't "engineered to last 50+ years" at all!! It was just very well engineered, and good mechanical instruments last long. I'll give you that the M8 is well-engineered, too, even though everyone acknowledges that after the M5 Leica slacked down a little. But whether consumer electronics can last 50+ years is just not in Leicas hands.
Watch myths at work.
You've got your answer right there. It's feasible just like it was feasible to strap a rangefinder on top of the Leica MD. If they can, Leica will offer it, and they will charge you so much for it that you could buy the M9 instead and keep the old body. They have a history of offering expensive upgrades.
Philipp
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
specular said:
Given the lack of quality of the images he based his judgement on, I cannot find this a very compelling statement.
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