Upgrade policy revamped

[Keith]

I would be interested to see how many people would only take the screen upgrade ... at 800 euros not many I would think. I assume you still get the supposed CLA with the screen job and the warranty extension. I can see sense in the shutter upgrade on it's own 'cause it does make a fair 'whack' when it goes off and youre not really losing that much without 1/8000!

It will be interesting to see what they try and line us all up for next ... perhaps we're just beta testers after all?

 

[shimo-kitasnap]

sapphire, comonly used in expensive watch glass, very scratch proof, however also very brittle, dosn't take shock very well. It can also explode into small slivers if subject to extreme differences in pressure. (Not that it matters for a camera) Omega for their NASA flight-certified Speedmaster Profesional uses poly carbonate instead of sapphire for this reason.

I dunno, when I clicked on this thread, people were talking about sapphire......

 

[thomasw_]

[sitemistic sarcasm]Well, come on now, isn't a piece of glass and a one year warranty worth a mere 800 euros? Such a deal.[/sitemistic sarcasm]

It has been stated that:>

You're not debating if you just keep repeating the same point over and over and over and over...
...in multiple threads no less!

Which seems logical and valid. And Dave is not alone.
And back alley made the same point using different words:>

back alley Quote:
Originally Posted by sitemistic
usayit, there are others who have expressed the same opinions about the M8 and the issues surrounding it that I have. Some multiple times. Without opinion and conjecture, this forum would be reduced to little but threads of FSU porn.

but they don't do it as a vocation!

every thread is the sos! we get it!

Yawn, I get it now, too. More doom, more gloom and even more sarcasm. All the same, dull as ditchwater. And I don't give a cat's meow about the M8, it is the constant drone in every thread remotely related to the M8 or Leica. Yawn, I get it.

 

[Ascender]

Why do M8* owners get ruffled whenever 5D's are mentioned in the same breath?

Why do M8* owners get ruffled whenever 5D's are mentioned in the same breath?

Gid, I don't worship 5D's. They are disposable tools. As I've said before, the only thing that would tempt me to replace my current 5D's with the next generation would be weather sealing as on the 1Ds. Otherwise, the 5D meets my needs. So Piss on!

I have both cameras, M8's and a 5D and I DO worship the 5D. It is every bit as great as the M8 and some. What I don't understand is why M8 owners get so bent out of shape whenever the 5D is mentioned. it's so frikkin childish, it's almost as if like blind lemmings, they just can't accept that it can ever be compared to their beloved, non FF, IR infested, back-focus ridden, extortionately priced, comically white balanced, erratically banded, poor battery performing gem of a most wonderful camera.
I think the 5D will go down in history as a pivotal camera and will receive many more accolades to add to it's already legendary status. It frikkin rules so get over it!!

-charlie

 

[Ascender]

Did someone say 'Gold M6'?

Did someone say 'Gold M6'?

My Nikon D200 came with a plastic protective cover over the LCD. I say it's plastic, but who knows, it might be sapphire, diamond or even Kryptonite for all I know. It has no detectable scratches on its surface, and of course the LCD glass beneath it is pristine. It was free. That seems about the right price to pay for something like this. I think people who buy that upgrade are insane. I think Leica is an ass for even offering it. I put it in the same category as the gold M6 the Sultan of Brunei's brother has. Pointless if you can afford; pointless if you can't.

/T

LCD update .... naaaaaaa, gold M6? I want one!!

-charlie

 

[visiondr]

Well, speaking as a lowly M4 owner, I'd get the shutter upgrade myself. I find the quiet little "snick" of the M shutter one of its special attributes. An M8 as discrete and quiet as my M4 would get my vote.

BTW, if Leica is serious about the "perpetual upgrade" program, I think the idea is a winner.

 

[infocusf8@earthlink.]

False Prophet

False Prophet

I have both cameras, M8's and a 5D and I DO worship the 5D.

You're worshipping a false prophet who is about to be replaced and probably will be two or three more times before you see an M9. I have non of the problems you list with the M8 and after two of my friends who own 5D's saw my M8 images they switched. Put your faith in something that will last not a camera that comes with "soon to be replaced" stamped on it.

 

[visiondr]

I would love to see Leica pursue a strategy of "a camera for life" in which they'd create a modular CCD/CMOS sensor and electronics. If such a device were possible, they'd truly have something unique, sellable, and true to the company's philosophy.

 

[Ascender]

Sadly....

Sadly....

I'm not anti digital, far from it. If the m8 had the reliability of nikon and canon digital gear then I would probably be more inclined to dive into the m8 ocean. What I really can't accept though is this marketing ploy by leica for owners to keep their cameras at the cutting edge of technology by paying vast sums of cash on top of what they've already paid!. For the price they're selling m8's for, I would like to believe I was buying the best anyway. To my mind this is NOT a sorted camera but instead a factory test program funded by those of us who buy into it. I really can't believe leica when it comes to digital. I'm sticking with my film M's and a scanner until leica stop taking the p@@@

there isn't a single point of what you're saying that can be contested. I hope they get it together over there in Solms.

-charlie

 

[Ascender]

What Leica should've done from the get go....

What Leica should've done from the get go....

I would love to see Leica pursue a strategy of "a camera for life" in which they'd create a modular CCD/CMOS sensor and electronics. If such a device were possible, they'd truly have something unique, sellable, and true to the company's philosophy.

is build a less expensive (but not drastically) M series camera that had a ff sensor and autofocus with a whole new line of lenses to accommodate the AF. They should also have made it retro compatible with existing M lenses with some kind of focus assist, green dot in the VF a-la Nikon Dslr's or something. No one would've been bitching and they would've sold a ton more. The 'camera for life' model is a nice idea but is bound for problems down the road.

-charlie

 

[visiondr]

You're right on, Charlie.

I recall Contax had a cool autofocus system that centered around a movable film plane! In that way, current users of Contax/Zeiss lenses could continue to use their current optics, and use either autofocus or manual focus. Leica has said in the past that they've been reluctant to design autofocus SLR optics, for example, because lens helicoid tolerances have to be so much looser to allow a servo motor to actually move the lens. On the movable sensor idea: it might even be possible to design such a sensor that would not only move fore and aft to focus, but also adjust to compensate for camera shake as many other manufacturers have managed. OK, so that's all pie in the sky stuff. Still, if there's a will... I'd buy one.

 

[Ascender]

Wake up!

Wake up!

I have both cameras, M8's and a 5D and I DO worship the 5D.

You're worshipping a false prophet who is about to be replaced and probably will be two or three more times before you see an M9. I have non of the problems you list with the M8 and after two of my friends who own 5D's saw my M8 images they switched. Put your faith in something that will last not a camera that comes with "soon to be replaced" stamped on it.

You take me too literally. Of course I don't 'worship' the camera you fool. The only thing I worship is my stunning wife and beautiful children. the term 'worship' was meant to point out just how ridiculous Leica owners get about any other camera that isn't German. Oh and btw, I owned an M8 before you even knew of it's existence and if you expect me or anyone else on this forum to believe you when you say "I have non of the problems you list" then that's just a flat out lie.

As for your friends that switched, how easily fooled/seduced (whatever you choose) they must have been. Whilst I love my M8, I can love it because it isn't my only camera .... by a looooong chalk. It is way too limiting and inconsistent to hold that mantle. Now with film, there was no other camera as far as I was concerned, digital however is a completely different matter which is why I maintain that Leica should've built a whole new system from the ground up that was capable of retro compatibility with existing M lenses.

-charlie

 

[Ascender]

Pie in the sky but perhaps......

Pie in the sky but perhaps......

You're right on, Charlie.

I recall Contax had a cool autofocus system that centered around a movable film plane! In that way, current users of Contax/Zeiss lenses could continue to use their current optics, and use either autofocus or manual focus. Leica has said in the past that they've been reluctant to design autofocus SLR optics, for example, because lens helicoid tolerances have to be so much looser to allow a servo motor to actually move the lens. On the movable sensor idea: it might even be possible to design such a sensor that would not only move fore and aft to focus, but also adjust to compensate for camera shake as many other manufacturers have managed. OK, so that's all pie in the sky stuff. Still, if there's a will... I'd buy one.

much more of a solid vision than anything else I've heard regarding the future of Leica. We could go on and on about this but it deserves a much longer conversation and I just can't concentrate enough for my tired fingers to keep up with my already aging, scrambled brain. had a conversation with Andreas Kauffman and he put me straight on many questions I had one of which was 'why don't you just buy the Contax G AF patent from Zeiss'? Basically it isn't that straight forward. It's all to do with cameras not having a universal OS a-la computers ie, Mac OS or Windblows fista.

I have the G2 and use it often. I am in love, no, I WORSHIP that camera. I shot my wife on Oscar day with it and ended up with one of the best pictures I've ever taken.

-charlie

 

[jaapv]

I have both cameras, M8's and a 5D and I DO worship the 5D. It is every bit as great as the M8 and some. What I don't understand is why M8 owners get so bent out of shape whenever the 5D is mentioned. it's so frikkin childish, it's almost as if like blind lemmings, they just can't accept that it can ever be compared to their beloved, non FF, IR infested, back-focus ridden, extortionately priced, comically white balanced, erratically banded, poor battery performing gem of a most wonderful camera.
I think the 5D will go down in history as a pivotal camera and will receive many more accolades to add to it's already legendary status. It frikkin rules so get over it!!

-charlie

A bit silly to worship a camera imo, but having said that, there are two schools in photography since the Nikon SLR's came out. The masses have embraced the SLR concept, there is a minority (lunatic fringe? ) that prefers the rangefinder system Never the twain shall meet.... But the silliest thing of all is trying to trumpet the qualities of one's own choice by putting down the choice of somebody else. One is bound to fall flat on one's face, as both the M8 and the 5D (and the new Nikons etc...) are superb tools in their own right with all their own qualities. What do I care who or what rules, I use a camera to take photographs. In the realm of ruling the USA presidential elections are more relevant....

Btw, you are wrong about
a: battery life: 500 shots if you conditioned the battery properly to begin with
b: banding was solved in Januari 2007
c. Whitebalance: as far as AWB is relevant for serious work, it is amongst the best on the market since the latest firmware.

And well, FF and IR, if anybody knows of a solution for that, I'm sure Leica (or failing that Zeiss Ikon) would be happy to hear about it. Laws of nature, you know.

As for focussing, you have a point there. It is true that the traditional Leica rangefinder is stretched to the limit. Fortunately it is fine with all but two lenses. The Summilux 35asph 1.4 it the worst example in case. I have a feeling that lens must just be redesigned, as there are too many out there that are not up to scratch with the M8. The Noctilux is another story, that lens behaves exactly as it used to do on film M's. But the quirks are of course exaggarated on digital That means that here is a case of the user having to adapt to the limits of the design, I fear. It is a sobering thought that focussing accuracy would be far more of an issue on a fullframe camera, with its attendant shallower DOF.

Not that I am much impressed by the corners of the FF on the 5D. But that might be the lenses, or just me.

As for the price, speak for yourself, that depends on three parameters: your personal appreciation of the product, your income and your priorities.

If you prefer the 5D, you won't hear me say a word against it. It is a great camera and the choice of many. But it is not a camera I would buy. My choice.

 

[Gid]

I have both cameras, M8's and a 5D and I DO worship the 5D. It is every bit as great as the M8 and some. What I don't understand is why M8 owners get so bent out of shape whenever the 5D is mentioned. it's so frikkin childish, it's almost as if like blind lemmings, they just can't accept that it can ever be compared to their beloved, non FF, IR infested, back-focus ridden, extortionately priced, comically white balanced, erratically banded, poor battery performing gem of a most wonderful camera.
I think the 5D will go down in history as a pivotal camera and will receive many more accolades to add to it's already legendary status. It frikkin rules so get over it!!

-charlie

Please don't take a quote from me out of context. I have no problem with the 5D or any camera from any other manufacturer. What I have a probelm with is, as noted by several others, the constant, repeating negativity and sniping by one sitemistic.

 

[jaapv]

Getting back to the original topic, I think the unbundling of the upgrades will make it more attractive to some and falls more in line with the "a la carte" program. Who knows, you may see an M8 a la carte announced at Photokina!

I know for a fact that Leica are seriously considering an M8 a-la-carte, the main consideration being the current pressure on the production line.

 

[myoptic3]

I wonder if someone could direct me to the FSU porn threads (just for scientific research, of course. I only read them for the great articles. :=).

 

[proenca]

Surface immune to scratches from metal, stone or sand. None of which imply brittleness nor materials "harder" than Sapphire glass. I've literally seen people take keys (metal) to their sapphire crystals with no problem. I would assume that stone (rocks) and sand will also be no problem.

BUT

It doesn't mean it will withstand a hammer ( METAL ) at full force.

This is true and I have a living proof - I bought 12 years ago a Omega watch.

Cost me a fortune.

Use it every day, 365 days a year, as of today.

The watch is solid metal, glass is sapphire.

I bumped the watched into every imaginable surface, scractched against everything, from years of Jet Sking and Scubadiving, to car crashes and troublesome 20 to 30 years ( arent they all ? ) .

The watch has some deep scratches on the metal , which can be clearly seen. Afterall its 12 years of HEAVY use with ONE watch. The saphire glass is immaculate. Not a single scratch, dent, ding, whatsoever. Pristine.

Will I upgrade my M8 to a sapphire glass ? Honestly, no. Im no fanatic about the LCD. I understand why it costs so much and how durable it is. But its not for me. I just use the LCD occasionally, so even if it has a scratch or two ( which after a year of M8 usage doenst ) it really doesnt bugger me. Now the shutter option, that's another issue... I'll be upgrading for sure...

 

[parsec1]

Is this chimping?

No arrogant monkeying about.:bang:

 

[parsec1]

sigh.. just get on with it guys... sitemistic, if you oh so hate the M8, or enjoy throwing *** on anything related to the M8, fly to germany and throw *** at the managing ppl there... not here....

Hey my Dad did that between 1943 and 1945.( 67 times in Lancasters) and it didn't make any difference to them at all.