fenixv8
Established
Hello,
I have fallen in love with my M8 and have been shooting with it since July. It has inspired to me get out and shoot with it everyday. I even signed up for a photography program which I am loving. I have looked ahead at some of the classes and the minimum requirements for some of the class is 10 megapixels.
I have been doing a lot of research on the differences of the M8, M9, and M240.
Ideally, I would want to upgrade to a M9 but I dont want to deal with the censor corrosion issue that will eventually develop? I have been following the M9 sensor thread and it seems like the wait is very long for a repair.
I have read a few threads on upgrading from the M9 to M240 but not too many from the M8 to M240 (probably because of the camera's age). I don't know anyone personally that has either camera and have not shot a M240.
I have been shooting to the M8's strengths and love the camera but wish I had a bit more quality compared to some other photos i have seen with my class mates. Also I'm hoping the ISO will be more to my liking with the 240 over the M8 as ive found lately i've been taking more shots in the darker hours.
Any input would be greatly appreciated from those who have made the switch.
Thank you,
Chris
I have fallen in love with my M8 and have been shooting with it since July. It has inspired to me get out and shoot with it everyday. I even signed up for a photography program which I am loving. I have looked ahead at some of the classes and the minimum requirements for some of the class is 10 megapixels.
I have been doing a lot of research on the differences of the M8, M9, and M240.
Ideally, I would want to upgrade to a M9 but I dont want to deal with the censor corrosion issue that will eventually develop? I have been following the M9 sensor thread and it seems like the wait is very long for a repair.
I have read a few threads on upgrading from the M9 to M240 but not too many from the M8 to M240 (probably because of the camera's age). I don't know anyone personally that has either camera and have not shot a M240.
I have been shooting to the M8's strengths and love the camera but wish I had a bit more quality compared to some other photos i have seen with my class mates. Also I'm hoping the ISO will be more to my liking with the 240 over the M8 as ive found lately i've been taking more shots in the darker hours.
Any input would be greatly appreciated from those who have made the switch.
Thank you,
Chris
Emile de Leon
Well-known
There is always something more and better..just around the corner..then the next..and the next..and the next..ad infinitum..
Better to make your photos great..on any camera..any lens..
Dont become a gear head..become a good photographer..
You will be happier in the long run..
Better to make your photos great..on any camera..any lens..
Dont become a gear head..become a good photographer..
You will be happier in the long run..
jnclde
Established
This is kind of funny, but I posted a similar response regarding a M9 thread, but I feel you may regret selling the M8. I ended up selling mine and 'upgrading' to a sony a7ii for all of its new advanced features and that it accepted all my lenses, but was ultimately disappointed. I think the M8 is worth keeping for it's CCD sensor. Similar to the sony the M240 has a CMOS sensor and I feel they lack richness in their files. They seem to be great for scientifically, but not artistically, which is what the camera is for.
If low light shooting is your concern I found after a couple of years of shooting with the M8 I could stay at base iso of 160 and push process up to three stops in LR and still get more than acceptable results. I would usually shoot wide open at f1.9 at 1/30th, just enough to not encounter motion blur. The M8 is very capable camera.
M8 voigtlander ultron 28mm f1.9 ltm
If low light shooting is your concern I found after a couple of years of shooting with the M8 I could stay at base iso of 160 and push process up to three stops in LR and still get more than acceptable results. I would usually shoot wide open at f1.9 at 1/30th, just enough to not encounter motion blur. The M8 is very capable camera.
M8 voigtlander ultron 28mm f1.9 ltm
Luke_Miller
Established
I went from the M8.2 to the M9 and now the M typ 240.. With the M9 I no longer needed the IR filters and my lenses had the field of view I was used to. Image quality and high ISO performance was pretty much unchanged from my M8.2. I loved the quality of the files - particularly at or close to base ISO. I learned to use indirect flash when light levels dropped so I could maintain that image quality.
I just received my typ 240 so I can't yet make an informed comparison with the M9 regarding image quality, but my initial shots look very nice. High ISO performance is significantly better. I'm very comfortable now at ISO 3200.
I would not let the sensor corrosion problem deter you from and M9 or M-E. Not all M9/M-E bodies will experience it and Leica now has a replacement sensor that resolves the issue. The replacement delays we hear about are often the result of waiting on the availability of replacement sensors. My M9 required a new sensor and it was only out of my hands for a month. I just sent my M9 to my dealer for consignment sale. He would not accept it without either a letter from Leica showing the sensor had been replaced or that Leica had cleaned and inspected it and no corrosion was found. I suspect most reputable dealers are doing something similar.
I just received my typ 240 so I can't yet make an informed comparison with the M9 regarding image quality, but my initial shots look very nice. High ISO performance is significantly better. I'm very comfortable now at ISO 3200.
I would not let the sensor corrosion problem deter you from and M9 or M-E. Not all M9/M-E bodies will experience it and Leica now has a replacement sensor that resolves the issue. The replacement delays we hear about are often the result of waiting on the availability of replacement sensors. My M9 required a new sensor and it was only out of my hands for a month. I just sent my M9 to my dealer for consignment sale. He would not accept it without either a letter from Leica showing the sensor had been replaced or that Leica had cleaned and inspected it and no corrosion was found. I suspect most reputable dealers are doing something similar.
KM-25
Well-known
When I was first considering getting another M digital ( had the M8 and then M9 before I left them ) I was concerned that the 240 would be as you say it is. Well I was very happy to see that it put out what I felt were easily as good of files as anything I had ever used.
Anyone who thinks the M240 puts out lesser files than other M digital cameras is simply not up to the task of being an actual photographer in my opinion.
Lss
Well-known
The M typ 240 is the first upgrade that really makes sense for all M8 owners from the technical point of view. You gain full frame, a significant step in resolution, better low-light performance, some improved bits and pieces (such as the less noisy recock), and on top of it all there are some new features. The M9/M-E is a much less useful upgrade, it is basically just a full-frame M8. While that's a big thing for usability for many people, most serious M8 users must have made the required additions to their lens lineup to deal with the crop factor.
Then there are the Monochrom models. You go this route because you need or want to shoot a monochrome camera. The image quality is simply excellent with both iterations.
The new M typ 262 is a very interesting option. It is the 240 without the new features, but with all the improvements over M8/M9/M-E. It's a step back that technically makes little sense. This is a camera born out of a pricing exercise, and it is an appealing one for that very reason. I'm waiting to see how the real street price goes against M typ 240, and I may end up making the switch from my trusty M8.
Then there are the Monochrom models. You go this route because you need or want to shoot a monochrome camera. The image quality is simply excellent with both iterations.
The new M typ 262 is a very interesting option. It is the 240 without the new features, but with all the improvements over M8/M9/M-E. It's a step back that technically makes little sense. This is a camera born out of a pricing exercise, and it is an appealing one for that very reason. I'm waiting to see how the real street price goes against M typ 240, and I may end up making the switch from my trusty M8.
That's the weirdest thing I have heard today. Skip the class, they can't teach you much based on those requirements.
Jason Sprenger
Well-known
The jump from the M8 to M240 can be substantial. 24MP can show off the capabilities of nice rangefinder lenses and full-frame shortens the field of view of lenses back to where they were designed to be used. And while the M240 needs a new set of batteries, the battery lasts a lot longer.
However, for handheld photography, 10MP is actually plenty of resolution for 8"x10" or A4 sized prints. 11" x 14"s if you nailed focus and don't have to crop too much. However, pixel count has rapidly diminishing returns much past this point. At and above 16MP or so, only the very best lenses on cameras bolted to a tripod can realize the benefits.
Nonetheless, I went from an M8.2 to an M240 specifically for the higher ISO performance and feel comfortable shooting up to ISO 3200. On the M8.2, I felt like ISO 640 was pushing it, especially in color.
With that said, for years, ISO 400 film was my practical maximum. There's very little really wrong with popping on a little flash and dragging the shutter, even in this age. With the M8.2 or even the M240, I use the equivalent to the Bolt VS-210/Metz 20 C-2, often with a business card acting as a bounce card for its tilting flash-head.
A number of RF enthusiasts scoff at the very idea of flash, but f2 and f1.4 has mighty thin depth of field and an optical rangefinder doesn't provide a preview. Besides, Ansel used flash. It's no big deal unless you choose to deliberately limit your tools.
Perhaps, more importantly, what is it in the other photos that you see lacking in your own? Is it something that higher ISO will address? That is, what do you see wrong with your bad ones?
However, for handheld photography, 10MP is actually plenty of resolution for 8"x10" or A4 sized prints. 11" x 14"s if you nailed focus and don't have to crop too much. However, pixel count has rapidly diminishing returns much past this point. At and above 16MP or so, only the very best lenses on cameras bolted to a tripod can realize the benefits.
Nonetheless, I went from an M8.2 to an M240 specifically for the higher ISO performance and feel comfortable shooting up to ISO 3200. On the M8.2, I felt like ISO 640 was pushing it, especially in color.
With that said, for years, ISO 400 film was my practical maximum. There's very little really wrong with popping on a little flash and dragging the shutter, even in this age. With the M8.2 or even the M240, I use the equivalent to the Bolt VS-210/Metz 20 C-2, often with a business card acting as a bounce card for its tilting flash-head.
A number of RF enthusiasts scoff at the very idea of flash, but f2 and f1.4 has mighty thin depth of field and an optical rangefinder doesn't provide a preview. Besides, Ansel used flash. It's no big deal unless you choose to deliberately limit your tools.
Perhaps, more importantly, what is it in the other photos that you see lacking in your own? Is it something that higher ISO will address? That is, what do you see wrong with your bad ones?
fenixv8
Established
Thank you so much guys. I appreciate the honest responses. Wealth of information here. I guess my biggest worry was the CCD vs the CMOS and the eatra weight of the M240. I have come to notice the difference in rendering and I really love what I get out of the CCD. But im starting to think the benefits of M240 being 5 years newer and all those features and that it is a big jump. Bigger than M8-M9 or M9-M240. Thank you again for all the responses. I think the M262 would be perfect but with the exchange rate right now, cheapest i can find is $7910 after taxes. Canadian dollar is sucking right now.
fenixv8
Established
This is kind of funny, but I posted a similar response regarding a M9 thread, but I feel you may regret selling the M8. I ended up selling mine and 'upgrading' to a sony a7ii for all of its new advanced features and that it accepted all my lenses, but was ultimately disappointed. I think the M8 is worth keeping for it's CCD sensor. Similar to the sony the M240 has a CMOS sensor and I feel they lack richness in their files. They seem to be great for scientifically, but not artistically, which is what the camera is for.
If low light shooting is your concern I found after a couple of years of shooting with the M8 I could stay at base iso of 160 and push process up to three stops in LR and still get more than acceptable results. I would usually shoot wide open at f1.9 at 1/30th, just enough to not encounter motion blur. The M8 is very capable camera.
M8 voigtlander ultron 28mm f1.9 ltm
I am really loving your shots and PP work. Very inspiring.
KM-25
Well-known
I bought my M240 used in mint condition on here for $4,000 in June, I use it professionally and it has been flawless. A friend of mine who is also a pro just picked up a 240 with the EVF and two batteries for $3,700.
Just saying...you don't have to always buy new.
fenixv8
Established
Yes I was planning on buying a used M240, would be around $5200 CAD or $4000 US. Would put the M8 value towards that.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
FYI, MP and photography are not related at all.
fenixv8
Established
I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain degree. There are many different types of photography and I believe digital photography in some forms has at least some relation to pixels.
But I also do not understand why the course decided on that number as the cut off. Its the advanced portraits course in the degree program and Ryerson University. Some of the courses have Focal length requirements ie 3 lens over x amount, some have requirements for full manual adjustment and some require lightroom/photoshop. This one has the requirement for Minimum mega pixels.
Vics
Veteran
Amen from a recovering gearhead...
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Tell me about it..
But as of now..I only buy stuff to fulfill a specific photographic need..and/or make me some extra cash..and.. can resell for little loss or even a profit..later on..
Or a super duper..deal...
giganova
Well-known
I am shocked, shocked to hear that there are "still" professionals using a Leica -- allegedly -- despite what I hear on this board all the time that Leica is only for "showoffs", people with "more money than brains" and "spoiled brads"!
jcrutcher
Veteran
The 240 has so many more features than the M8, you may not use all of them but you'll come to enjoy it. It is bigger and heavier than M8 be prepared for that.
Don't sell your M8! They are great cameras and would make a good backup or B&W only body.
Jim
Don't sell your M8! They are great cameras and would make a good backup or B&W only body.
Jim
uhoh7
Veteran
Don't totally forget about the M9. There are many out there with a new sensor, though it's not the latest one. That's what I bought 2 years ago, and I have no sign of corrosion. But it's not very humid here, I do walk in and out of the cold all the time. And I've put over 100k frames on the M9. It's been all over the backcountry. I never saw any M240 image that made me want to upgrade, honestly. The only reason I'd consider it is the ability to use SLR glass via adapters and the EVF, but the A7 with Kolari mod does that pretty well at a fraction of the cost of a 240. In fact, for the price of a used 240 you can buy both a M9 and Kolari A7!
M9s are as low as 2200 now, often near pristine.
M9 CV 35/1.4 by unoh7, on Flickr
M9s are as low as 2200 now, often near pristine.
M9 CV 35/1.4 by unoh7, on Flickr
KM-25
Well-known
Yeah, me neither...then I used one and was sold.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I went from an M8 to an M240 but with a break of several years in between while I used a D700 for my digital requirements. The 240 is a superb camera that addressed every issue that annoyed me about the M8.