Used M8 prices getting very attractive?

[yanidel]

There is such a thing as diminishing returns, and in this case it is a biological limit. Even if an image is magnitudes "better" in objective measurement, if your eye cannot see it, it is meaningless. Sensor technology is close to hitting that limit.

Yes, and I also think there is a trade-off between sensor size, light attributes and technology.
At some points, pixels will hit the limit on their minimum size and users won't want cameras that are too big to fit bigger sensors. The question is to what #pixels and ISO this limit corresponds to. To what I have read, there isn't that much time before we get there.

 

[blazeicehockey]

The digital rangefinder's future is tied more to the reality of the marketplace than to megapixels, resolution and low noise. The market for digital RF's is tiny. I'm not sure even Nikon or Canon, much less Leica, could ever recoup their R&D from developing a completely new digital RF camera and lenses that overcome the physical limitations of stuffing a digital sensor in an M body that the M8 faces. I think Leica has advanced the digital RF about as far as it can go without breaking free of the M.

Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander have invested a lot of money in lRF enses. As seen through the development of the DP1 and the E-420, there is also a demand for high quality imaging in a small body. I am sure there is a market for Leica to produce a CLE sized FF 12mp camera with interchangeable MF lenses (liveview focusing, EVF focusing or standard RF VW with electonic confirmation of focus).

 

[blazeicehockey]

But Leica can't produce a FF, CLE sized 12mp camera that uses M lenses. Physics keeps getting in their way. 🙂

...not yet...but when it does...... I haven't had someone walk in front of my car with a red flag for several years now, so I'm sure physics isn't a barrier that can't be overcome 😛

 

[Olsen]

This may have something to do with the gold price being driven up into the stratosphere by panicking people. In other news, the price of the M8 in barrels of crude oil has fallen, too.

In Germany at least there are several companies now trying to scam people into buying gold, asserting that the end of money-based civilisation is near and that gold is the only asset with a lasting value. I wonder if some of their customers ever looked at the development of the gold price over the last 30 years.

Philipp

if you really can buy gold; do it!

It is the best way to hedge against the coming combined inflation - and drop in real estate values, fall of share & bond prices etc. It is not easy for 'ordinaries' to buy large amount of gold. The closest I know is Swiss governmental bonds which is backed close to 100% by gold. Neither these are easy to get hold of for ordinary people.

Most 'products' I have been offered is not 'really' gold, but, say, investment in a hedge fund that, alledgedly, has invested heavily in gold. Don't be fooled by the salesmen offering these 'financially enginered products'. Call the police or click you safety latch on you hand gun to 'off'. That should make them back off.

 

[akiralx]

In Germany at least there are several companies now trying to scam people into buying gold, asserting that the end of money-based civilisation is near and that gold is the only asset with a lasting value. I wonder if some of their customers ever looked at the development of the gold price over the last 30 years.

Philipp

I read that some Germans are also insisting on receiving German-printed Euro notes from banks rather than those from other countries (there is a distinctive prefix). They believe the Eurozone is heading for a crash and feel that domestic notes are more likely to be readily cashed back to Deutschmarks when that is readopted...

 

[M. Valdemar]

The best investment is as many one ounce bullion coins as you can afford.

Easily disposable, easily acquired, recognized everywhere.

if you really can buy gold; do it!

It is the best way to hedge against the coming combined inflation - and drop in real estate values, fall of share & bond prices etc. It is not easy for 'ordinaries' to buy large amount of gold. The closest I know is Swiss governmental bonds which is backed close to 100% by gold. Neither these are easy to get hold of for ordinary people.

Most 'products' I have been offered is not 'really' gold, but, say, investment in a hedge fund that, alledgedly, has invested heavily in gold. Don't be fooled by the salesmen offering these 'financially enginered products'. Call the police or click you safety latch on you hand gun to 'off'. That should make them back off.

 

[user237428934]

I read that some Germans are also insisting on receiving German-printed Euro notes from banks rather than those from other countries (there is a distinctive prefix). They believe the Eurozone is heading for a crash and feel that domestic notes are more likely to be readily cashed back to Deutschmarks when that is readopted...

Very funny. Although I read that over 10 Billion Deutsche Mark are still out there in private safes or drawers.

 

[iridium7777]

It is not easy for 'ordinaries' to buy large amount of gold. The closest I know is Swiss governmental bonds which is backed close to 100% by gold. Neither these are easy to get hold of for ordinary people.

boy, has someone really lied to you. open any brokerage account and buy "GLD" all day long; well, might be night for you.

 

[M. Valdemar]

I'm so glad there are billions of people who think the way you do. You've bought the programming hook, line and sinker.

Makes it so much easier for those with their eyes open.

Gold can't be in a "bubble" when there's nothing left to buy it with.

In 1923 people could protect their wealth by investing in just about anything, as long as they avoided keeping it around in cash.

Huh?

This is exactly the kind of Captain-Obvious-style half-truth that keeps gullible-but-afraid people flocking.

In 1923 people could protect their wealth by investing in just about anything, as long as they avoided keeping it around in cash. There was nothing particularly special about gold back then, except that gold coins were more common than they are today. But then again, a bit of fearmongering goes a long way if you're the party that is making the profit. As a result, precious metal prices are in a bubble at the moment. Gold is as secure an investment now as real estate was five years ago.

To come back to the original point of "them being right", if the assumption is that the cash-based economy will go away (which is kind of wacky in my book, to put it bluntly), this has a lot of interesting implications for the future of civilisation in general. In that case would doubt that a transition to a gold-based economy, of all things, is a particularly likely alternative scenario. Investing in canned foods may be a better idea.

Philipp

 

[jaapv]

Very funny. Although I read that over 10 Billion Deutsche Mark are still out there in private safes or drawers.

Well, I have a 10 DM note lying about somewhere....😛

 

[user237428934]

Well, I have a 10 DM note lying about somewhere....😛

And how many dutch gulden do you still have 😉

 

[iridium7777]

GLD is great, and very easy, but it is still a "note" with claims to physical gold, and is still held at a brokerage account. Too many intermediaries for my tastes, especially if things get really bad. And who know how easy it would be to get delivery, should push comes to shove?

Better to have at least some physical on hand "just in case." Coins are great - american eagles have too much premium, krugerrands are a better value, I think...

alright, since the whole topic of M8 got completely derailed, i'm might as well add more arbitrage to here.

i don't understand what you're saying, do you actually want to stockpile bullion in your basement somewhere? if so, and you’re really waiting for a rainy day, id rather be buying guns and ammo, cuz throwing bricks of gold at people ain’t gonna help you none “if things get really bad”. if we really go back to the days when we have to start trading in actual gold, we’ll have other things to worry about.


GLD will never send you any gold, no matter how much you request. but, it’s instantaneous if you wanted to get your money into/out of it, just as long as the market is open and it tracks the absolute price.

 

[M. Valdemar]

pphuang gets it. Not only is he a good photographer, but he understands reality.

You either get it or you don't.

Yes, have some physical.

There are some reasons to own American Eagles if you live in America, rather than bullion coins from other countries.

The main reason being, for certain purposes, the face value ($50) is considered the legal tender value under U.S. law. You can legally avoid currency restrictions when moving the stuff, etc.

PS: It is ALREADY a rainy day. Read the news today? Look at the stock market? Read about Fannie and Freddie? Look at the price of oil? Watching the saber rattling?

But any physical gold is better than no gold. Unless you're a sheep.

 

[iridium7777]

Look at the price of oil? Watching the saber rattling?

But any physical gold is better than no gold. Unless you're a sheep.

mister, you're the sheep, with a slight pinch of paranoia, listening to whatever cnbc will spew at you.

guess what, i own oil, and no, it's not in barrels in basement either. i've owned it since 107$ when people were freaking out saying the world will stop. where have your golden coins gotten you? do you think people really need gold? no one is crying and whining about gold supplies running out, no one is crying about china and india using up all the world's gold; gold was cool in 1208.

and i owned gold, and it's the ONLY thing i've lost money on this year, it was a 10% stop order and it's more than made up for with other things. examples? buying apple in 130's... buying ipo of visa at 58$... perhaps if you actually really paid attention to the market instead of screaming the world is coming to an end you'd be making money too.

 

[iridium7777]

We should all buy gold M8's. That would resolve this discussion AND help Leica!

bling bling, but i want mine filled with oil! 😀

 

[Olsen]

A golden M8 is the obvious answer!

 

[M. Valdemar]

You have lost an enormous percentage of the value of your devalued dollars, and you didn't have to do a thing.

I'm not here to disillusion you. I don't listen to CNBC. Please, since you have such faith in your ability to "outsmart" the market, don't let me stop you.

Nobody "needs" gold. It won't run out. Gold was cool in 1208. Correct you are.

Trading gold securities or gold shares in currency is not what it's all about. Actually, for me, people like you are like "real" money in the bank. You have such tremendous faith in the status quo, it admirable.

mister, you're the sheep, with a slight pinch of paranoia, listening to whatever cnbc will spew at you.

guess what, i own oil, and no, it's not in barrels in basement either. i've owned it since 107$ when people were freaking out saying the world will stop. where have your golden coins gotten you? do you think people really need gold? no one is crying and whining about gold supplies running out, no one is crying about china and india using up all the world's gold; gold was cool in 1208.

and i owned gold, and it's the ONLY thing i've lost money on this year, it was a 10% stop order and it's more than made up for with other things. examples? buying apple in 130's... buying ipo of visa at 58$... perhaps if you actually really paid attention to the market instead of screaming the world is coming to an end you'd be making money too.

 

[Olsen]

Regardless, if you live in USA or Europe; we are facing a situation where inflation will reduce our 'liquid' savings and earnings (if we are not compensated for the inflation through rise in salaries) and falling real estate prices will reduce the value of our homes and other properties. Historically, gold has been a good hedge for such a situation. To borrow money could be another way.

In a way; this situation will deteriorate the economical situation of people like myself, middle aged with savings and no big mortgages on our homes etc. While young people with net negative fortunes and large mortgages will prosper from the situation, - if they are compensated for the falling value of the money.

I don't mind that. High inflation helped me along when I was young too.

A smart thing to do is to do large purchases 'now', not wait. Buy your M8 'now'. Don't wait. Clean the market for those 2.hand M8s!

 

[Olsen]

In the end, if the entire financial system collapsed, there would be only two things left with intrinsic value: food and shelter. In such a circumstance, gold would be would be worthless because it has no intrinsic value. The gold chain I've worn for years around my neck has become quite valuable because the price of gold has reached such heights; but, in the post-financial collapse, it would be worthless because I can't eat it or live in it, and my neighbor won't value it because he/she can't live in it or eat it.

Oh, no. The 'financial system' will survive. Here you talk of the deep core of the 'capitalist world' (do I sound like a communist?), the most powerful people in the world. No less.

What the question is about now, is, who is going to pick up the bill to keep the 'financial system' intact. If 'the Fed' is going to pick up the tab, it means, in reality; the ordinary American tax payer will pay for all the mishaps of the people in the financial world. It is this solution which is now the most realistic. Bernanke wants more authority to lend out more money to insolvent financial operators and go to great lenghts to keep them out of losses. While Paulson, confirming that 1,5 million households became homeless in 2007 and another 2,5 million will become homeless this year, say that 'nothing' will be done to stop this.

It is not the 'financial system' which is going down. It is the working class/lower middle class Americans who are going down the drain and the hard working 'ordinaries' who will pay the bill through higher taxes and out-of-this-world inflation (fall of the dollar).

 

[yanidel]

Oh, no. The 'financial system' will survive. Here you talk of the deep core of the 'capitalist world' (do I sound like a communist?), the most powerful people in the world. No less.

That is an interesting topic. There is currently in France a whole movement towards the need to go back to a better balance between capitalism, quality of life, ecology and fairness to all people of the world. I am not talking about anarchism/communism of course, yet these ideas are being discussed at the higher level of the two main political parties.
Can the world go on like that ? Everything is now about making profits. China and India are the latest joining the party and will put more pressure on the ecology of this planet. Middle-class in france is starting to suffer : delocalization, inflation, reduction of social services. Economy wise it makes more sense, but human wise, people are not so sure this is the way to go ahead. That leads me to the fact that this is probably why the European Union has so much trouble going forward from now and tighten the links between the countries. People fear it is no longer here to protect them and build a common society, but it has become a huge administration more worried about numbers, growth and expanding markets.