Using Zeiss Ikon (ZM) in the cold ?

[petercs]

Hi,
has anybody used a Zeiss Ikon (ZM) in the cold or knows of any
discussion of this topic (not finding any spec for operating temperatures) ?

I am am considering buying that camera plus 50mm and 25 or 28mm
lens in order to go light and cold proof at expeditions to the Himalayas.

My understanding of the camera is, shutter needs battery all time
- unlike Nikon's FM3a e.g. Is that assumption correct ?

Do the different batteries the camera can be used with stand the cold ?
How well can the Zeiss be handled with gloves on ?

May be rarely asked questions but is essential to me.
My Nikon D2Xs works astonishingly well in the cold but
unfortunately is way to heavy for my use case.

Can I give the Zeiss a chance ?

Best Regards, Peter

 

[Paul T.]

Obviously it would be best to hear from someone with relevant experience, but Zeiss do claim that their testing did include exposing the camera to sub-zero temperatures (though they don't mention whether the batteries hold up at that temp)...

http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/Contents-Frame/51174405A82B6ADCC125722900400C68

...(click on Chapter 4)

 

[petercs]

Obviously it would be best to hear from someone with relevant experience, but Zeiss do claim that their testing did include exposing the camera to sub-zero temperatures (though they don't mention whether the batteries hold up at that temp)...

http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/Contents-Frame/51174405A82B6ADCC125722900400C68

...(click on Chapter 4)

Thanks. Seen the Freeze chamber, that's exactly what my tent sometimes is ;-)
Peter

 

[back alley]

i have used the zi in very cold temps but for short periods of time.
it's not unusual to have winter temps of -30 to -40c here in the great white north.
i regularly shoot in the winter but for maybe 30 minutes at a time and then run into a store or restaurant to warm up some. not the mountains clearly but street shooting in the city.
i use a half case and mini gloves with no fingers, not great for my arthritis but i don't like gloves much and if i get really cold i use mitts for better warmth.
joe

 

[Tom A]

Any battery is going to slow or "die" in extreme cold if it is exposed to it for extended time. For a trip like what you are talking about I take a/two bodies and one of these would have to be all mechanical with no battery dependency. Apart from batteries dying, you will have to deal with condensation and moisture getting inside the camera. I haven't tried the Bessa R2/3/4's in cold weather, but two bessa's would cost roughly the same as a ZI and increase your chance of succes. You could of course take a R2A and a R2M, if you feel you need aperture priority sometimes.
The R's are OK to use with gloves and you could also get on of the Bessa Rapidwinders (you can switch them between bodies). This makes it easier to advance the film!
Maybe some one can give us a heads up on ZI and Bessa's in cold weather shooting? Obviously, if you are trekking, you will have limited time to warm up the cameras during the day and that is when the batteries fail. 8-10 hours of exposure will do it.

 

[sepiareverb]

I've shot a lot in very cold weather- stock shooting landscapes- but with Nikon F4's and an F100. The F100 was much less happy in the cold despite less metal in the construction. Despite everything I've read I've never had the film break using a motor driven camera, even at the 'High' setting. I kept extra batteries in my pocket and changed them when they got too cold- not the simplest thing to do when it's -15°F, but keeps the camera going.

 

[back alley]

i always keep batteries in an inside pocket to stay warm and change them if the camera batteries get sluggish.
in really cold and dry weather you need to wind the film slowly so as not to break it or cause static marks on the film.

 

[Tom A]

If the temperature drops below -40 (C or F) you will start having problem with film cracking or sprockets splitting. You might also have problems with aperture blades and electronics usually packs up after 10-15 minutes. This is when you go all mechanical and advance or rewind very carefully. When it gets REALLY cold, - 54 F your film loses about 75% of its speed too. I once did a job in Northern Quebec and the noon temperature was -54F and my Superahromat 250/5,6 on a Hasselblad lost the 'special" element by having the barrel contract more than the glass. Just heard a muffled "thud" and the finder went fuzzy. Hasselblad fixed it and told me to go south for pictures instead!

 

[sepiareverb]

Great story Tom- amazing what the cold can do. I had my face freeze to an F4- foolishly exhaled toward the camera not away. Thankfully I wasn't doing some deep breathing exercises so it wasn't much vapor. Beyond batteries dying I was lucky with the F4's.

 

[iridium7777]

can you explain what was wrong with m6 and how does it differ from mp? i thought in worst case scenario your metering would stop working in m6 if the batteries are dead but you could still fully use it.

i know with m7 if the batteries go you only have 1/125 and 1/60 shutter spead in purely mechanical mode, but didn't know m6 was that dependent on batteries.

thanks.

I spent a month up in Northern BC. I had dead battery issues with my M6: I had brought 5 extras and I went through them all before the two week point! I resorted to taking my shots with my backup M3....and it never failed me! After we returned I sold the M6 and bought some lenses and a barnack body. I urge you to go all mechanical on your trip; you are taking the trip of a lifetime, don't play around with batteries. Depending on what you can afford, the barnacks, the M2/3/4 and MP/3 are your Leica options; I would be comfortable with any of those options, especially if the earlier models had had a CLA prior to the trip. As much as I like the ZI I wouldn't recommend it or the Leica equivalents, M7/6. Tom's suggestion about the Bessas might be more cost effective than the Leicas I suggested. I'd write the Gandy-man at cameraquest and get his feedback on the Bessas, the ZI and the Leicas. But I bet he'll advise you to go as mechanical as possible😉

Sounds like a smashing trip you are taking...it makes me a little jealous!

 

[jarski]

My understanding of the camera is, shutter needs battery all time
- unlike Nikon's FM3a e.g. Is that assumption correct ?

cannot answer you that, hope someone can..

but your planned setup sounds reasonable to me. 1 light mechanical body, 2 M-mount glasses that are smaller and ligher than SLR ones, but still perform well..

in those altitudes you have many other things to worry about, besides camera batteries etc.

 

[petercs]

Thanks to all of you for your answers, seems a good forum here. Using 2 bodies is an option only when approaching the base camp. The porters are happy to carry that for us. Further up we carry loads on our own, abd I can only afford to take one light body with me. A ZI with one or two lenses should do the job. Though we are heading for a 7000m peak in 2008 (Tilicho peak in Nepal), with a quite cold northeast ridge being our ascent route, I do not expect use temperatures of the camera being lower than -25 Celsius. Spare batteries are light with a ZI, so that is not an issue. But camera will only be taken into the sleeping bag when really frosted.

The investment should pay out on even colder mountains as well (on my list are Mustagh/Tibet, McKinley/Alaska and finally I want to scale Broad Peak/Pakistan in the near future). Had issues with a lighter DSLR (Nikon D70) refusing work the summit day morning and needed permanent battery swapping. My Nikon D2Sx works much better but the body only is at 1kg. What worked well was a Nikon FM3A SLR. No problem at all, up to 6500m. But I have it no more and also was not fully happy with the automatic exposure of the camera. It is also signifcantly heavier than a ZI.

I think I will check out the ZI (Norway trekking this summer, alpine ice climbing next winter) and then decide for my 2008 Himalayan trip.

Best Regards, Peter

PS: on www.pcsp.de there are a few pics, unfortunately not yet from my 2006 trip. I have a new page locally now and will repost soon. Though my best mountain shots are at www.summitpost.org (user petercorneliusspaeth).