UV-IR filters without coded lenses

[F456]

1.Apologies if any similar thread already deals with this problem, but I didn't easily see it.

2.Can someone with experience of using UV-IR filters with non-coded modern Leica lenses say how they find that combination? I haven't had too many problems without the filters (just using standard Leica or Hoya UV filters on lenses from 21mm f/2.8 ASPH through to 90mm f/2).

3.I am fully aware of the likely dangers of not using the filters, but what I am not so clear about are the downsides of using the UV-IR filters without coded lenses.

4.I won't be considering handcoding. I don't want to get the lenses factory coded either unless I have to, having spent money on 2 M8 bodies so I can work quickly with 2 lenses at a time.

Thanks for any info on this,
Tom

 

[evad1962]

Hey Tom

I've been using 3 uncoded lenses (CV 15/4.5, Zeiss ZM 35/2 & CV 90/3.5) on my M8 since I bought it in early June but my experience with UV/IR filters attached only goes back about 5 weeks. The most noticable effect of not coding the lenses with filters attached (as many on this forum will tell you) is the pronounced cyan 'vignetting' that occurs when using WA lenses (anything wider than about a 35mm). I shoot a lot of weddings so I need filters to give me black blacks as opposed to dark magentas - pretty important - so the filters stay on permanently - the only vignetting problems I'm having are with the CV 15. Vignetted corners are correctable in PP with software called 'Cornerfix' - never tried it but apparently quite good, search this site you'll find heaps of info about it.

In short, I've found the 'look' of the images I've taken with filters on to be superior in many ways to those shots taken W/O filters - more accurate colour rendition (watch out for synthetic {eg: plastic} purples tho'...I find they're often recorded as a shade of blue in certain lighting conditions..something I haven't seen discussed here), better blacks and improved sharpness, although this last point is a gut feeling thing & not based on actual science.

In summary, I'd suggest using UV/IR filters with your M8 lenses, and consider coding those lenses wider than 35mm to save time & hassles. Hope this has been helpful.

Cheers
Evad

 

[jaapv]

There is no compelling reason to code lenses of 50 mm and longer (even 35 is fine usually) unless you want the focal length in exif. If you use IR/UV filters it is advisable to have 28 and shorter coded, 35, just judge for yourself.
Cornerfix works fine, especially in combination with dedicated profiles in C1, but I find it a bit of a hassle to run shots through separate software and to change profiles according to the lens used.
It might be a good idea to look at Sean Reid's website http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/login.asp (he charges a small fee for his trouble) which has extensive tests on the subject.
On the whole IR/UV filters have the following advantages:
1. The infamous magenta tuxedo, obviously
2. Generally better balanced colours
3. Far better rendering of foliage (Chlorophyl is a strong reflector of IR)
4. Sharper rendering in general, but especially of fine detail. IR produces an unsharp overlay of about minus 5 stops. This is detrimental to microcontrast. This goes for black-and white conversions as well.
5. Tends to reduce magenta fringing on highlights. (Some dispute this, but I find it does)

Minus points of using IR/UV filters:
1.Ghost images, especially in night shots with specular highlights
2.Cyan flare spots of the same.

However, if one is used to having protective filters on the lenses: IR/UV filters are less subsceptible to flare and ghosting than regular filters are, even multicoated.

My IR/UV filters are virtually Superglued to the lenses.....

 

[F456]

Thanks for the replies, Evad and Jaapv. Clear answers and with all the info I need - just have to decide whether to go ahead and get them coded. Possibly yes for the 21/2.8Asph, 28/2Asph and maybe no for the 35/1.4Asph, which gets used a lot for dark conditions with bright lights (eg recently in games arcades). I'll leave the 50mm and 90mm alone as I'm not fussed about the EXIF data.

Tom

 

[Grober]

Here's what I've done to solve the unwanted and unplanned-for IR problem with the M8:

Every lens I use at 35mm and below is coded. In the case of my two CV w.a. lenses (15 Heliar and 28 Ultron) this has meant hand-coding which, so far, works without error. In the case of Leica w.a. lenses, they have each been sent to Leica Service for "official" coding.

Above 35mm, I don't yet see any need to code although all my lenses do wear UV/IR filters, all the time.

Every lens used on my M8 permanently wears the appropriate UV/IR filter. In the case of my two w.a. Leica lenses (21 pre-Asph Elmarit and 35 Summicron-Asph) the filter are Leica's own Japanese-made creations; the CV lenses see the world through B+W IR-reducing filters.

This solution works for me. There may be some visible differences between the B+W and Leica filters but I don't lose any sleep over seemingly non-essential matters at this point. I do lose some sleep over all the computer, computer storage and software upgrades I must make over the next year. Ugh!

At some future time, I will also purchase the appropriate B+W "IR-inducing filter" to exploit the IR possibilites of the M8, but that's a separate issue entirely. (Wasn't handling and processing IR film such a pain in former days?)

-g

 

[Bob Baron]

Grober, how do you attach your B+W ir filter to your 15mm CV lens?

I thought I read somewhere the CV 15mm is not threaded so as to accept filters.

And, what size B+W ir filter do you use for the CV 15mm?

Thanks,

--Bob

 

[Grober]

Grober, how do you attach your B+W ir filter to your 15mm CV lens?

I thought I read somewhere the CV 15mm is not threaded so as to accept filters.

And, what size B+W ir filter do you use for the CV 15mm?

Thanks,

--Bob

The B+W 39mm filter with the addition of a rubber gasket commonly found in the plumbing section of larger USA hardware stores does the trick. Use care but once you have correctly sized the gasket, everything works just fine.

-g

 

[Bob Baron]

The B+W 39mm filter with the addition of a rubber gasket commonly found in the plumbing section of larger USA hardware stores does the trick. Use care but once you have correctly sized the gasket, everything works just fine.

-g

Thanks.

Any particular reason you use the B+W as opposed to the Leica filter?

--Bob

 

[summilux]

The B+W is half the price of Leica ones, seems to be better made, and has a wider choices in size.

I am sending my 50 Lux Asph to Solms for coding, not that it needs coding, and it has already a E43 filter on it, but it is back focused, it must be part of Leica's plan that through coding they can tune all those "non compatible" in spec with M8.

 

[Bob Baron]

The B+W is half the price of Leica ones, seems to be better made, and has a wider choices in size.

I am sending my 50 Lux Asph to Solms for coding, not that it needs coding, and it has already a E43 filter on it, but it is back focused, it must be part of Leica's plan that through coding they can tune all those "non compatible" in spec with M8.

The price differential is not quite so dramatic here in the US, but it is definitely noticeable. I was wondering if there is enough of a difference in the size of the filter itself (the ring or flange) that would make one brand preferable to the other. Neither brand is available for personal inspection here so I will have to buy by mail.

As to the coding/focus issue, I had some lenses that were back-focusing coded and adjusted by Leica US and they cured the focus issues by fine tuning (using shims, I believe) the focus when the new coded mounts were installed.

 

[summilux]

Bob,

I have got the B+W as my Leica IR filters are yet to arrive. I have heard the B+W ones cut more IR, whereas the Leica ones might be more tuned for M8's sensor. But as it is digital, I wonder it does really matter since you can tune the pictures whatever way you want in Capture.

The B+W mount is made of brass, therefore feels very solid, whereas the Leica ones, the black ones for sure, are made of aluminum alloy. And people say the Leica ones are made in Japan by Tokina, to Leica specification of course.

which lens you find have back focus problems?

 

[Bob Baron]

My back-focusing lenses included 35mm Summilux ASPH, 50mm pre-asph Summilux, Noctilux, 75mm Summilux and 90 mm Summicron AA.

My 28mm Summicron ASPH, 24mm and 21mm ASPH Elmarits are spot on.