uv/ir on film cameras?

[back alley]

is there a negative impact using uv/ir filters on lenses that will be used for b&w film?

 

[Chris101]

Most B&W film is plenty sensitive to UV light - at least down to 365nm - that's the "blacklight" color. Most B&W film is NOT sensitive to IR light at all. A few films are made that do 'see' IR, for example Ilford's SFX200 and Rollei IR400. Most of the good IR films have been discontinued.

 

[kermaier]

Do UV/IR cut filters produce any more flare or other image degradation, beyond what's introduced by a plain UV filter of similar quality? Any additional warming or cooling of image tones?

Basically, if you have a bunch of UV/IR filters that you bought for use on an M8 (or on an R-D1 or M9 for incandescent lighting), is there any reason not to use them on other cameras where you'd normally just use a UV filter?

 

[f16sunshine]

I keep using all of mine. Seem to improve color and contrast on film and ALL digital cameras.
Yes, there can be some extra reflections but, if you're aware of it you can mitigate the flare or make use of it as some do.
The UV/IR filters I have are all B+W or Helioplan. Extremely well made and cost a bunch.
If you use filters go for it and decide for yourself. Some folks are absolutely against using filters of any kind.

 

[back alley]

i use filters on all my lenses but no lens caps, ever.
i have some uv/ir filters (b+w) but they are silver and look odd on all black gear.

 

[back alley]

i think i'll just try the silver ones on my lenses and see what happens...worst thing people stare or point fingers at me!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

There's no harm to the lens from using the filter. Depending on the film, there may be a detrimental effect on the image recorded, especially if you forget to compensate for the exposure loss from those filters. A number of 'classic' IR filters are now pretty much useless with film cameras because their cutoff point is beyond the range of sensitivity of any IR films being produced today (any of the 87 series (87, 87a, 87c) will block the entire visible light spectrum). The 'strongest' IR filter that works with the near-IR films available now is the Hoya RM72, which has a cutoff at 720nm (anything below that point on the spectrum is absorbed by the filter). The 87 filters cut off at at least 870nm, and there are some filters that cut off at 890nm. The near-IR films lose sensitivity beyond 820nm.

 

[back alley]

these are not infra red filters...there is no filter factor.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

As far as IR most answers have been given, for the UV question I am not sure I get what you mean. Are you talking of the standard UV filters, they can be tried easily and produce very little visible results in most cases. If you on the contrary want to register UV radiation of film (wavelength below 400nm) good luck. First, very few emulsions will register much in that region, the exception being the Fuji RTP which, I believe, was for forensic usage and I have no idea where can be bought. Second, many lenses don't let pass much of these radiations (most glass actually, try getting sun tan behind a glass and you can see), so you have to experiment with early uncoated glasses or pinholes or zoneplates, Finally, to have the best chance to have this working you should filter much of the remaining spectrum, which can be done via a Wratten 18A filter, not cheap, not easy to find. There used to be a kit of filters made by Peca Products and sold by Fuji with their IS-Pro also for law enforcement, but I don't think it is easy to find. If someone knows where to buy this I am actually interested.

Edit: Sorry, I know where to find those filters:

http://www.ir-uv.com/filter_kit.html

GLF

 

[user237428934]

I have an UV/IR filter in front of my lenses and switch lenses between M8 and M7. I don't take the filters off when on the M7 because I'm too lazy and while I don't have scientific proof, the b&w film photos look just fine.

 

[Chris101]

... If you on the contrary want to register UV radiation of film (wavelength below 400nm) good luck. First, very few emulsions will register much in that region, the exception being the Fuji RTP which, I believe, was for forensic usage and I have no idea where can be bought. Second, many lenses don't let pass much of these radiations (most glass actually, try getting sun tan behind a glass and you can see), so you have to experiment with early uncoated glasses or pinholes or zoneplates
...

Most B&W emulsions are very sensitive to UV. You are correct about the lens being the issue. There are a number of lenses that do transmit UV however. If you're using nikkors, Bjørn Rørslett has a lot of information about lenses suitable for UV and IR use.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

Most B&W emulsions are very sensitive to UV. You are correct about the lens being the issue. There are a number of lenses that do transmit UV however. If you're using nikkors, Bjørn Rørslett has a lot of information about lenses suitable for UV and IR use.

Yep, sorry, b/w do and, thank you for the link, I know it already because I own an IS-Pro and play with it (for IR) quite a bit.

GLF

 

[David_Manning]

Funny timing, this thread. I was just going over images from my trip yesterday to Boston, and I converted a quick landscape (which I don't normally shoot) to b&w, and then used a green filter. It looks more IR to me than just a normally filtered digital image. It makes me wonder if there is something unusual/different/special to the EOS M sensor...

 

[Doug]

The thread is getting off the OP question, which is related to UV/IR Cut filters such as became popular with the M8 to *remove* unwanted IR contamination of the image. The CCD sensor is more sensitive to IR light than common films, so (without the filter) this light is over-represented in the image, causing odd color shifts.

This can be confusing because there are also IR filters that *transmit* mainly IR and cut most everything else. Big filter factor... These can give some interesting tonal results on IR-sensitive films, with hi-IR subjects showing very bright/light. Kinda like David's shot above.

But in this instance, the green filter will darken everything that's not green, so there is a filter factor here too. Applying the filter factor then effectively lightens everything, and green subject matter ends up relatively brighter.

I use the UV/IR filters on both M8 and M9, but have not used them with film. So no personal experience there to relate, but I don't think there will be any noticeable effect with either B&W or color film.

 

[David_Manning]

My apologies to Back Alley for the off-topic post...I didn't intend to hijack the thread.

 

[f16sunshine]

You do notice a bit more contrast in some scenes when using color film.
Just as you would if using a UV/Skylight filter.