ventilation

T

thegf

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i am in the process of setting up a small darkroom in my basement.

it will be within a small "cold" room in the basement (its basically a little utility room where there is nothing more than my water meter). it has a door and no windows.

however, i keep reading that darkrooms should have ventilation. is it a good idea to simply have air come in and out of the darkroom, or is it important that the air go on to the outside world?

i don't think i will be able to vent to a window, or otherwise outside; is this a problem? will my health be adversely affected?

thanks.
 
You MUST have ventilation that has a vent to the outside and a vent bringing air into the room as well. The intake can come from your house, but the exhaust needs to go outside or else you're just pumping the poison gasses to other parts of your house.

Yes, your health WILL be adversely affected. I know someone who died because of this. I have no doubt that a bunch of people will follow my post with denials and belittling of what I said. I know what I am talking about. If you work in an unventilated, or improperly ventilated darkroom, you are endangering your life and by not letting the chemicals vent outside, your family's lives as well. Its not worth getting cancer and dying 30 yrs from now just to save some money on equipment. I do not print in the darkroom anymore because I began having respiratory problems in my 20s from it after a decade of having a darkroom, and mine WAS well ventilated. Be careful and do not listen to any idiot who tells you otherwise. Its YOUR life, not theirs that such bad advice is endangering.
 
Looking back, I think I needed a much more powerful fan because my darkroom was in the middle of a large house (lived with my parents back then, they have a 3000 sq ft house). The outside wall of the house was 20 feet from my darkroom's walls, so the exhaust went through a duct we installed in the attic to get to the outside wall and I think the fan I had (A Delta 1 brand darkroom fan) was made to install on an outside wall. Consider that if you have your darkroom in an interior room, as mine was!
 
I had access to a school darkroom for 4 months. I spent many days and many hours in there and I got very sick. Even with the ventilation systems they had.

I would be very careful.
 
Yes, ventilation is important, but for venting, a lot depends on the house. With an old house that 'breathes' (i.e. has plenty of draughts) you don't really need to worry about venting into another room: venting into the roof-space beneath the joists of the floor above should be entirely adequate. I've never had a darkroom in a new house, except a VERY big one in a cellar, so I can't advise you there.

Unlike others, I've never had health problems from unventilated darkrooms (the first 20 years or so that I had them), but equally, most of my former darkrooms were big (at least 12 square metres/120 sq. ft.) and all my darkrooms have been ventilated for the last 20 years. I strongly suspect that a lot depends on your general health and immune system, plus personal varariation in susceptibility, plus the size of the darkroom, plus the materials of which the house is built, plus your choice of processing chemicals (and the fact that B+W is generally safer than colour).

In fact, I've met very few people who do ascribe any ill effects to the darkroom. Some were perfectly healthy, and others may simply have failed to ascribe their ailments to the darkroom. It is possible to overstate the risks: it is, after all, a risk, far from a certainty, as many healthy old photographers attest, but equally it is foolish not to install decent ventilation unless you really do spend very little time in the darkroom.

Cheers,

R.
 
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Roger,

I have a copy of your book (from the library) sitting on my coffee table. I find it very helpful.

Thanks to everyone else for the heads up. My darkroom will not only be small (5' x 6', approx.), it will likely not be used a whole lot, unfortunately.

I had an old fireplace in the basement that still has the vents hooked up. I was thinking of just blocking them up this summer (now that the fireplace is no longer usable), so I suppose I could just use that. Now all I need to do is convince my wife that running a hose along the exterior wall of the basement is necessary - for my health.

I still need to figure out how to get the hose/vent through the door. I have a crafty idea in mind, but would be open to suggestions. Unfortunately, the door is the only way, as the walls are cement.

Thanks again.
 
Pot growing forums have a lot of this type of information, just so you know. Not that I know anything about that. Or ever did. You'll want to use a squirrel cage fan rather than a propeller type. They are able to push the air down a tube much better, propeller's almost useless, but they can be loud. There are usually a bunch on that auction site. Surplus electronics stores that are online can be good, too.
 
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Chriscrawfordphoto said:
You MUST have ventilation that has a vent to the outside and a vent bringing air into the room as well. The intake can come from your house, but the exhaust needs to go outside or else you're just pumping the poison gasses to other parts of your house.

Yes, your health WILL be adversely affected. I know someone who died because of this. I have no doubt that a bunch of people will follow my post with denials and belittling of what I said. I know what I am talking about. If you work in an unventilated, or improperly ventilated darkroom, you are endangering your life and by not letting the chemicals vent outside, your family's lives as well. Its not worth getting cancer and dying 30 yrs from now just to save some money on equipment. I do not print in the darkroom anymore because I began having respiratory problems in my 20s from it after a decade of having a darkroom, and mine WAS well ventilated. Be careful and do not listen to any idiot who tells you otherwise. Its YOUR life, not theirs that such bad advice is endangering.
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didnt know that and i mean it, i thought you would get sick or something but nothing near life threatening!!!
in addition to ventilation, is it reasonably to use a full face mask? (hope not to sound too noob here :S )
 
You can make a hole in cement I would think. Hammer and chisel? Venting through a door while trying to keep it light tight is going to be hard...
 
rsosa said:
didnt know that and i mean it, i thought you would get sick or something but nothing near life threatening!!!
in addition to ventilation, is it reasonably to use a full face mask? (hope not to sound too noob here :S )
Click to expand...

A face mask doesn't protect against chemical vapors unless you have an industrial respirator that filters the air. That isn't needed with proper ventilation.
 
Ranchu said:
Pot growing forums have a lot of this type of information, just so you know. Not that I know anything about that. Or ever did. You'll want to use a squirrel cage fan rather than a propeller type. They are able to push the air down a tube much better, propeller's almost useless, but they can be loud. There are usually a bunch on that auction site. Surplus electronics stores that are online can be good, too.
Click to expand...

Why do you need that kind of ventilation to grow pot? Do the plants give off toxic (or high-inducing, lol!) fumes while they grow?
 
its funny those type of forums actually exist.

i'm still curious whether a vent that vents into the rest of my house is ok. the warnings on my chemicals seem to suggest they are irritants (i.e. don't get them in your eyes or skin) more than anything.
 
thegf said:
its funny those type of forums actually exist.

I'm still curious whether a vent that vents into the rest of my house is ok. the warnings on my chemicals seem to suggest they are irritants (i.e. don't get them in your eyes or skin) more than anything.
Click to expand...


Follow the MSDS for the products you are using. If you contact the manufacturers, they can supply information about the amount of air movement they describe as "good ventilation".

B&W processes do produce irritants. The best way to manage limited ventilation is to use low-irritant chemicals (especially citric acid stop bath) and a slot-type processor instead of open trays.

Ventilate as best you can, and stop if you feel any ill effects.

Marty
 
shadowfox said:
Anybody uses one of these?
http://www.eepjon.com/VentHoods.html

I'm building a darkroom and my sink is 7 feet long. I'm thinking about installing one of these.
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Looks good. But unless you dabble in archaic alternative processes or do Ilfochrome tray development, it is a luxury rather than essential - a regular bathroom wall ventilator will do for common ready mix chemistry.

You'd be better off investing the saved money in a crate of good single-use gloves (nitrile, not latex - the latter is just as allergenic as the stuff it should protect you from) and/or in automated processors that help in keeping developers off your hands. The one big risk in a darkroom is a contact allergy against some of the common active chemicals in developers!

As there are no gaseous developers, you won't have any significant quantity of developer in the air (at least unless you do spray processing of ultra large prints). Common darkroom "fumes" may not smell nice, but they are mostly acetic acid and sulfur dioxide, both perfectly harmless (to the point of being below common concentrations in food) in the encountered amounts.

In colour film processing, you will encounter formaldehyde (not carcinogenic in the amounts present, but a gaseous allergen) in the stabilizer - due to that, the exhaust air from colour drying cabinets should be vented outdoors!
 
thegf said:
Roger,

I have a copy of your book (from the library) sitting on my coffee table. I find it very helpful.

Thanks to everyone else for the heads up. My darkroom will not only be small (5' x 6', approx.), it will likely not be used a whole lot, unfortunately.

I had an old fireplace in the basement that still has the vents hooked up. I was thinking of just blocking them up this summer (now that the fireplace is no longer usable), so I suppose I could just use that. Now all I need to do is convince my wife that running a hose along the exterior wall of the basement is necessary - for my health.

I still need to figure out how to get the hose/vent through the door. I have a crafty idea in mind, but would be open to suggestions. Unfortunately, the door is the only way, as the walls are cement.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Perfect! Install a powerful expeller fan in the chimney and fresh air will find its way in, unless the room is REALLY well sealed. If it is, a light-trapped impeller fan in the door (easy to do) will solve all your problems.

Cheers,

R..
 
sevo said:
Looks good. But unless you dabble in archaic alternative processes or do Ilfochrome tray development, it is a luxury rather than essential - a regular bathroom wall ventilator will do for common ready mix chemistry.

You'd be better off investing the saved money in a crate of good single-use gloves (nitrile, not latex - the latter is just as allergenic as the stuff it should protect you from) and/or in automated processors that help in keeping developers off your hands. The one big risk in a darkroom is a contact allergy against some of the common active chemicals in developers!

As there are no gaseous developers, you won't have any significant quantity of developer in the air (at least unless you do spray processing of ultra large prints). Common darkroom "fumes" may not smell nice, but they are mostly acetic acid and sulfur dioxide, both perfectly harmless (to the point of being below common concentrations in food) in the encountered amounts.

In colour film processing, you will encounter formaldehyde (not carcinogenic in the amounts present, but a gaseous allergen) in the stabilizer - due to that, the exhaust air from colour drying cabinets should be vented outdoors!
Click to expand...


I disagree, I got sick from fumes as have others I have known. Developers are based on extremely nasty organic chemicals based on benzene. They can evaporate into the air, you can breathe them, and they will make you sick with long term exposure.
 
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