Very interesting report about Kodak film production

[David Hughes]

Hmmm, I woud have thought that the advent of digital meant lots of decent cine cameras appearing at silly prices. So people can start with very low costs and "pay as you go" for film stock. And a lot of people with serious money invested (?) in serious cine cameras are not going to throw them all away when they are still working OK and they know the things inside out. I also wonder if small cinemas were able to buy superior projectors cheaply as the digital stuff moved in; it's the trickle down effect.

Like us 120 and 35mm film users, perhaps? I guess some of us haven't worked that one through ;-)

Regards, David

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Theaters are rapidly replacing film with digital, primarily because of the cost savings involved for both the theater and the distribution end of the movie business. According to industry figures, it cost about $70,000 per theater (each one within a megaplex) to upgrade to digital. The cost savings, they say, quickly cover that. The lack of digital capability right now is limiting distribution of some of the latest hit films (which production houses are unhappy about), but capacity is expected to double by the end of the year and no longer be an issue by 2014 as most theaters will be 100 percent digital by then.

I suspect old film projectors will become as hard to dispose of within the next few years as enlargers are now.

 

[Tim Gray]

Theaters are rapidly replacing film with digital, primarily because of the cost savings involved for both the theater and the distribution end of the movie business.

How is it a savings to the theater at all? From what I understand, they foot the bill for the conversion, while the studios/distributors foot the bill currently for the projection prints. Also, from what I understand, this complete lack of incentive for theaters to 'go digital' is the exact reason they haven't yet.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Tim, it's the kind of movies that are making the big bucks now that require digital projectors. If you are operating a theatre and you have only one digital screen in your multiplex theater, then you are losing out on revenue if there are three hot digital movies out at the same time. Which has happened recently.

 

[emraphoto]

I went to the photo store to get some film on friday. A 5-pack of 120 film and a 5-pack of 35mm film, both Portra 400NC. Cost me about $92 (CHF92). And that was with 10% student discount. Talk about outrageously expensive. Funny thing is I do have a 5DII that wouldn't cost me any additional money to use. I even like it. But it's just not the same.

that is outrageous!?!?! where are you buying this film? via mail order 120 film is as cheap as i have EVER seen. i can have tri-x (120) shipped to my door for about $3.25 a roll. i buy bulk (100 plus rolls) so that help with the end cost per roll.

check out alibaba.com for links straight to manufacturers of film in China etc. i have spoken with a few suppliers and can get 120 film for less than a dollar in bulk purchase. shipping of course not included.

http://www.alibaba.com/products/photo_film/--1908--------------------------.html?noddp=Y

 

[Tim Gray]

Tim, it's the kind of movies that are making the big bucks now that require digital projectors. If you are operating a theatre and you have only one digital screen in your multiplex theater, then you are losing out on revenue if there are three hot digital movies out at the same time. Which has happened recently.

That's funny. Avatar, the biggest one so far, probably looks best on film IMAX, as opposed to digital.

So the theaters are not partaking in the 'cost savings' of switching to digital. Instead, they are missing out on revenue. Which might very well make up for the conversion costs. But there is a difference.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I see little difference in cost savings or increased revenue when it gets to the the bottom line. They are simply being pushed into the future a little faster than they would have gone otherwise. The result, though, is still the same. They are going digital.

 

[Tim Gray]

While I'm not disagreeing with you, there is a huge difference between increased revenue and cost savings. If the theaters could save costs by converting, they would have done so long ago. As I read your statement, it said something very different, which is why I made the original comment.

It saddens me that in the name of the almighty dollar, we are going to worse quality in some cases. Digital IMAX compared to 65mm IMAX comes to mind.

Anyways...

 

[photogdave]

It saddens me that in the name of the almighty dollar, we are going to worse quality in some cases. Digital IMAX compared to 65mm IMAX comes to mind.

Anyways...

Amen to that. As the quality of movie theatre projection continues to worsen (along with the behavior of the patrons) I find myself more often waiting for the BluRay to come out and watching most of the new movies at home.
The last good theatrical experience I had was watching Inglorious Basterds at a single screen art house. It was most poetic when the theatre burned down...

 

[imokruok]

If you're in the business of movie production, you record the dialog on an external recorder, not on the film itself. Which tells me, if there's a demand for super-8, it's from actual filmmakers.

Yup, absolutely. The famous clapperboard exists so the guys in post know where to sync the video with the audio. And off-camera audio is getting cheap to do, especially for hobbyists. I have heard shorts and concerts done with a Zoom H2 ($150) for audio, and they sound great.

On a side note for hobbyists, most of the cheap Super 8 cameras out there can't do faster speeds. I see the Ektachrome 64T is still available from retailers, but is Kodak still making it? I know Kodak killed their 64T in other formats. If so, what and how are people shooting for Super 8 film these days?

3D movies are a fad & won't last! As long as cost to keep digital media in storage are in the thousands compared to hundreds like with film directors & investors will continue to use film.

Studios do both. Even films shot entirely on digital get film archival prints because everyone knows how they age and how they'll be viewable 50 or 100 years from now. As opposed to data storage - just look at the mess that NASA put itself in from its missions in the 60s and 70s. They collected some significant data at the time, and stored it on tapes. The tapes are fine, but the equipment to read them went out of fashion not long after the tapes were made.

 

[sepiareverb]

Well I'm convinced. I'm going digital if the cineplex is. I love that digital butter on my popcorn too.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

digital butter has less saturated fat and is better for you.

 

[Jamie123]

that is outrageous!?!?! where are you buying this film? via mail order 120 film is as cheap as i have EVER seen. i can have tri-x (120) shipped to my door for about $3.25 a roll. i buy bulk (100 plus rolls) so that help with the end cost per roll.

check out alibaba.com for links straight to manufacturers of film in China etc. i have spoken with a few suppliers and can get 120 film for less than a dollar in bulk purchase. shipping of course not included.

http://www.alibaba.com/products/photo_film/--1908--------------------------.html?noddp=Y

I live in Switzerland and the price of film here is really ridiculously high. I have bought via mail order from B&H in the past but the shipping and taxes are always so high that it only makes sense if I order a LOT.
Now that the Euro is so low it makes sense for me to order from Germany. I think I could get Portra 400NC in 120 for about $5 a roll.

I only shoot Kodak Portra and the occasional roll of Ilford Delta so cheap, no brand films aren't really an option.
I've tried the alibaba links but can't find a price anywhere.

 

[David Murphy]

So, three minutes of silent Super 8 for $15. Are there really many people shooting silent movies anymore?

Pro film makers know how to get S8 synched up with dual sound systems and that's a major market for S8 now (i.e. more serious film makers). Nevertheless, I think Kodak made a mistake dropping magnetically striped S8 as it's probably the simplest and cheapest way to get lip sync sound if one is on a budget.

 

[LADP]

I'm a DP (cinematograher) by profession, and I shoot quite a bit of Super 8mm for commercial, TV and even feature films at times. I use it simply for the aesthetic, and it is typically a format I use to augment another (higher) primary format (35mm or HD, for example). After processing, it is transferred to HD for a DI and then output to whatever the end distribution is for the given project. Quite a few specialty stocks are available from Pro 8mm in Burbank, and while it's no longer an inexpensive format to utilize for film and television, it has numerous applications. Sound is all double system, so no recording on any camera formats is necessary for the work I do.

 

[stephaneb]

I live in Switzerland and the price of film here is really ridiculously high. I have bought via mail order from B&H in the past but the shipping and taxes are always so high that it only makes sense if I order a LOT.
Now that the Euro is so low it makes sense for me to order from Germany. I think I could get Portra 400NC in 120 for about $5 a roll.

I only shoot Kodak Portra and the occasional roll of Ilford Delta so cheap, no brand films aren't really an option.
I've tried the alibaba links but can't find a price anywhere.

macodirect.de has a good assortment and I find the prices to be good.

 

[Dralowid]

Somewhere in amongst the piles of st8 and Super 8 stuff that I have amassed over the years is an Elmo 3D adapter for both camera (think C300) and projector. The kit, still unused, also conatins a few pairs of glasses. Maybe this is a bit of equipment that has finally 'found its time'!

Haven't bought film for a while but still buying what I consider to be interesting st8 cameras. Guess that makes me a collector...shame on me!

Michael

 

[HHPhoto]

New Super 8 film from Kodak!

New Super 8 film from Kodak!

Hi folks,

positive news: New Super 8 color reversal film from Kodak.

http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motion/about/news/2010/Apr06_1.htm

Cheers,
Jan

 

[Frank Petronio]

Originally Posted by Jamie123
I went to the photo store to get some film on friday. A 5-pack of 120 film and a 5-pack of 35mm film, both Portra 400NC. Cost me about $92 (CHF92). And that was with 10% student discount. Talk about outrageously expensive. Funny thing is I do have a 5DII that wouldn't cost me any additional money to use. I even like it. But it's just not the same.

Freaking Porta 400NC is the best film in the world but you're right, it is too expensive.

 

[imokruok]

Hi folks,

positive news: New Super 8 color reversal film from Kodak.

http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motion/about/news/2010/Apr06_1.htm

Cheers,
Jan

Wow, that is really interesting. Thanks for posting. I'm assuming it's definitely geared to pros, though, because I think 100 ISO film was not a standard ISO on old consumer Super8 cams.

I am getting really tempted to try a quick-and-dirty movie myself: shoot on an old consumer camera, develop E6 loose in a 1 liter 35mm/120 tank, put it on an old projector, and telecine off the wall with my HD cam...hmm...