the_hunter
Established
Thank you for the info and links. I too have been interested in alternate glass for a while and there is very little info out there. If I ever get one of these lenses I will share info and sample photos.
Trask
Established
Yes, of course you’re right. I meant “unfortunate” in the sense that I’ve never encountered any of the more esoteric lenses. Poor choice of word...
David Murphy
Veteran
This is an awesome looking lens. I own the Soligor 35mm F3.5, which is a pretty nice lens, but I must say the Contax version looks just as good if not better in finish at least.I've saved a few images from a recent auction of a Soligor 35mm f/2.8 in Contax Mount (C engraved on lens mount, but surely the Nikon version exists).
This is the only version of the Soligor 35mm I've seen. I know the Tanar 35mm came in the same barrel, but I don't know how many revisions the Tanar barrel went through. I don't know if the Komura ever came in this barrel, but there are at least two or more versions of it. David Murphy shared some info about his Komura 35mm on the forum a few years ago, and here's another style of the Komura with a silver aperture ring, this version had no engraving for Contax or Nikon:
(I've saved these images for education/research only. I hope it's okay to share them.)
wes loder
Photographer/Historian
Brian: Thank you for your response. I did some more experiments.
We know that the depth of both the Contax and Nikon RF cameras’ external mounts are the same. That is why it is possible to use accessories for the external mount such as reflex housings and microscope attachments interchangeably with no focus errors. The depth of the internal mounts also appear to be the same. The internal helicoids both advance the same distance. Where they differ is in the amount of rotation the helicoid requires to turn from the infinity to the three-foot setting. On the Nikon, this is 270 degrees of rotation. On the Contax, this is 274 degrees.
51.6/270 =52.1/274, a difference of half a millimeter.
The rotation difference is what messes up the focusing of external mount lenses since they read their distance based on the rotation of the internal helicoid. At infinity, all S/C mounts act the same. The closer the focus, the more out of sync the lenses will be, and the greater the potential for focus error.
You can mess around with shimming the lens mount if you want to, but if even the depth of field covers any focusing error of a normal lens at f2, I’ll be just as happy leaving things the way they are. And as for telephoto lenses, buy and use the ones that are correct for either the Nikon or the Contax. Thank you for your participation in this discussion. I learned something.
Now, just for cheers and chuckles, I conducted another experiment. I took vintage 1951 (MIOJ) 135mm f3.5 Nikkor and a 1959 135mm Nikkor and mounted them in turn on both my Contax IIa and the Nikon MS and a Nikon S2. As expected, all three cameras showed sharp images on a ground glass with either lens when set at infinity wide-open. Set at the minimum focus distance of five feet, the results with the Contax were more mixed but still close enough that stopping down to f8 would probably give acceptable results using the rangefinder for focus.
Your mileage may vary.
We know that the depth of both the Contax and Nikon RF cameras’ external mounts are the same. That is why it is possible to use accessories for the external mount such as reflex housings and microscope attachments interchangeably with no focus errors. The depth of the internal mounts also appear to be the same. The internal helicoids both advance the same distance. Where they differ is in the amount of rotation the helicoid requires to turn from the infinity to the three-foot setting. On the Nikon, this is 270 degrees of rotation. On the Contax, this is 274 degrees.
51.6/270 =52.1/274, a difference of half a millimeter.
The rotation difference is what messes up the focusing of external mount lenses since they read their distance based on the rotation of the internal helicoid. At infinity, all S/C mounts act the same. The closer the focus, the more out of sync the lenses will be, and the greater the potential for focus error.
You can mess around with shimming the lens mount if you want to, but if even the depth of field covers any focusing error of a normal lens at f2, I’ll be just as happy leaving things the way they are. And as for telephoto lenses, buy and use the ones that are correct for either the Nikon or the Contax. Thank you for your participation in this discussion. I learned something.
Now, just for cheers and chuckles, I conducted another experiment. I took vintage 1951 (MIOJ) 135mm f3.5 Nikkor and a 1959 135mm Nikkor and mounted them in turn on both my Contax IIa and the Nikon MS and a Nikon S2. As expected, all three cameras showed sharp images on a ground glass with either lens when set at infinity wide-open. Set at the minimum focus distance of five feet, the results with the Contax were more mixed but still close enough that stopping down to f8 would probably give acceptable results using the rangefinder for focus.
Your mileage may vary.
I used a set of digital calipers to measure the distance between the film rails and the outer rim of the lens mount. I zeroed the calipers at infinity, then measured the extension of the mount at 3ft for the two, figuring 0.9m is "ever so slightly" less then 3ft. I get the extension of the Contax II being a little more than 0.1mm more than the Nikon M Sync. I believe the difference in focal length of the Nikon normal lens and the Zeiss normal lens requires this difference in extension. I also put the bodies in a vise, and repeated the measurement with the calipers measuring the open-end of the vice. I repeated the measurement using my late Nikon SP marked in Meters- get a 0.12mm less travel for 0.9m to infinity compared with the Contax II measured from 0.9m to infinity. Try this for yourself. The Nikon requires less travel if we assume the focal length of a Nikon normal lens is less than the Zeiss. Most sources state this is true. Another simple test when I get some time. I have Amedeo adapters for internal mount Nikon and Zeiss lenses, and have a Millenium Nikkor on one and a post-war Zeiss Opton 50/1.5 on the other., will shoot them on the M9 or M Monochrom. These Amedeo adapters differ in that the cam for the Nikkor is straight, and the cam for the Zeiss is indexed- this is required because of the difference in focal length.
My S2- since the body was missing shims under two screws, I cannot be sure of how it came from the factory. It was a good candidate for shimming for the Zeiss, I have 4 other Nikon S2 bodies.
My S2- since the body was missing shims under two screws, I cannot be sure of how it came from the factory. It was a good candidate for shimming for the Zeiss, I have 4 other Nikon S2 bodies.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
Here's a really cool one that doesn't make the cut: Internal-mount Meyer-Optik Görlitz 4cm f4.5 Weitwinkel Doppel Anastigmat Prototype (for Contax, obviously, but the slow aperture probably makes it okay on Nikon). Kameratori has it for sale at a bit over 1000 euros. It looks quite rough in terms of construction.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Looks uncoated. Is it prewar? Wonderful!
Erik.
Erik.
David Murphy
Veteran
Wow that is an amazing rarity. The price is reasonable for what it is too.
David Murphy
Veteran
Apparently the Weitwinkel Doppel Anastigmat was made in M39 as well as Exakta mount - rare indeed
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
I haven't made much progress with my Nikon list, but I did find another 3rd party lens for Contax mount. Presenting the Optimar 100mm f/3.5. It is uncoated. Presumably also sold in Exakta or Leica thread mount? Anyone know of this lens?
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
I also found some interesting modified lenses on the Nikon Kenkyukai club page from 2005. https://redbook-jp.com/kenkyukai-e/2005/200504.html
One photo appears to show a Nikkor-Q•C 5cm f/3.5 rigid lens (LTM lens) put in the rear barrel of a black Nikkor 5cm f/2. Another photo shows a collapsible Topcor 5cm f/3.5 lens in Nikon internal mount. I believe these are both custom jobs, so I'm not putting them on the list.
One photo appears to show a Nikkor-Q•C 5cm f/3.5 rigid lens (LTM lens) put in the rear barrel of a black Nikkor 5cm f/2. Another photo shows a collapsible Topcor 5cm f/3.5 lens in Nikon internal mount. I believe these are both custom jobs, so I'm not putting them on the list.
dexdog
Veteran
Presenting the Optimar 100mm f/3.5. It is uncoated. Presumably also sold in Exakta or Leica thread mount? Anyone know of this lens?
Any idea of the manufacturer? I just saw the eBay listing, not very informative.
David Murphy
Veteran
There are two of these interesting Optimar's for sale on eBay right now, one in LTM the other Contax RF mount. The seller of the Contax lens has some speculations on the origin of this lens:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OPTIMAR-10...825843?hash=item421ae17973:g:uvkAAOSwT1Re641s
It might be a pre-war lens. In the 1930's there existed small scale efforts in Europe to manufacture aftermarket lenses for the Contax and Leica rangefinders. Most of these lenses are exceedingly rare today - some have probably vanished.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OPTIMAR-10...825843?hash=item421ae17973:g:uvkAAOSwT1Re641s
It might be a pre-war lens. In the 1930's there existed small scale efforts in Europe to manufacture aftermarket lenses for the Contax and Leica rangefinders. Most of these lenses are exceedingly rare today - some have probably vanished.
David Murphy
Veteran
Here's a test shot from my Atco 35mm F3.5. The camera was a Contax IIa. The film was Fuji 400 Superia C41 color negative film. I don't remember the F-stop setting, but it was probably somewhat open, considering the available light nature of the shot - afernoon lighting through windows. This lens performs better than expected IMO. At the time the Atco was sold, I would imagine it was priced an awful lot less than any competing Zeiss or Nikon wide. It was (and maybe still is) quite a good alternative to really high-end glass.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
Thanks David. For the sake of future audiences, the listing for the M39 mount says:
And thanks for the photo. Your collection of vintage 3rd party lenses, especially for Nikon/Contax, is very cool. So please share more.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I wonder which lens firm made it?
Komura maybe?
David Murphy
Veteran
Well ATCO was a name affixed to many imported Japanese binoculars and field glasses back in the 60's and maybe earlier. They also sold some small amateur refractor type telescopes. So this company, or whoever was behind it, could certainly crank out consumer optics of varying variety. The W.Atco is the only camera lens from them I am aware of.
Incidentally, it was (and still is) common for Japanese firms in the 50's and 60's whose main business was in making cameras and lenses, to also produce a line of binoculars and sometimes even other optical devices when they saw opportunity. This could be an example of the reverse, i.e. a company who's main line was binoculars trying a bit of camera lens production.
Incidentally, it was (and still is) common for Japanese firms in the 50's and 60's whose main business was in making cameras and lenses, to also produce a line of binoculars and sometimes even other optical devices when they saw opportunity. This could be an example of the reverse, i.e. a company who's main line was binoculars trying a bit of camera lens production.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
An odd find from Russia: The Industar-26m and Industar-61L/D tessars in Kiev/Contax mount. These are both pretty rough looking transplants, but at $11 per lens (shipping incl) I figured it's worth the risk! These don't really belong in this thread, they're just oddballs.
David Murphy
Veteran
Looks they might have been adapted. For $11 they are probably a great bargains.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
I got so excited when I saw this post from Champ Camera in Japan - but it was fleeting. It’s another custom job. But it looks cool, eh? I wonder where the parts came from. The lens appears to be the 25mm f/2.8 Zuiko-W from the rare Olympus Pen W (half frame). The camera appears to have some kind of custom trigger winder S36.