Visoflex covering Blue Dot

[willemvelthoven]

OMG! i just realised that my visoflexes will be blocking the view of my blue dot. Therefore the M8 will not be able to determine the aperture of my visoflex shots.

For macro, the camera would be off anyway, because it has no way of guessing the bellows extension factor.

But i'd love to see the apertures I use with my Hektor 125 or my Sonnar 180 in my EXIFs...

 

[Mark Norton]

I don't know where you get the idea that the blue dot is used to determine working aperture. You seem to be suggesting that it does it by comparing the direct reading with the one through the lens and using the ratio to determine actual f-stop. That would only work if both metering mechanisms were measuring the same scene with the same angle of view and the same spectral response, irrespective of the lens you mount on the camera. Further, how is this magic scheme going to work when you are using flash and there's not enough light to measure anything?

I acutally wonder whether the blue dot is a miniature TV camera which takes a picture of the aperture ring and they use optical character recognition to detemine the aperture ring setting.

More sensibly, I expect the blue dot to be for whilte balance, not for determining the working aperture.

 

[willemvelthoven]

Aperture detection is necessary...

Aperture detection is necessary...

for Leica to deliver what they promised: in camera image correction based on lens characteristics.

No way they can do in camera correction of images without knowing the aperture. See the other thread on the blue dot... for this discussion.

(and no way they are going to read the aperture with a little camera off my noct 58mm aperture ring. It's too far away and the engraving is too small)

And for flash, of course the measurement is taken during the flash. both ttl and blue dot. So there will be plenty of light!

The apertue detection is not necessary to display the aperture on the camera since it is set by the photographer and visible on the lens. The only relevant moment of metering is at the actual moment of exposure... Pretty simple.

Spectral response of the M8 sensor is known. You'd only go wrong with filters and with unknown angle of view.

 

[Ben Z]

Has Leica officially confirmed that the actual M8 even has a blue dot, or is there still a possibility it's a photshop affectation from someone's imagination?

 

[Palaeoboy]

I agree with Mark here I cant see how it would work as you have described.

For example if you are standing in direct sunlight shining on the camera top and pointing the lens into the shadows it would think the lens is set at a different aperture to if you were pointing the lens to another area also in sunlight.

Self timer LED is my guess.

 

[Mark Norton]

My spoof suggestion of the TV camera is just as ludicrous as yours - what good is an image correction system which is fooled by filters? Flash still presents a problem because unless they have a way of measuring the light reflected off the sensor, the in-camera sensor is not going to see anything when the flash fires. Actually begs the question whether their flash metering is going to be up to the M6TTL and M7, I expect there will be a dedicated flash unit from Metz.

 

[ywenz]

Self timer LED is my guess.

You actually think Leica will add that stupid looking dot for such an unimportant feature?

 

[Palaeoboy]

You actually think Leica will add that stupid looking dot for such an unimportant feature?

Yep. I have never seen an electronic self timered camera without one (Although they possibly exist) so its a fair guess. But again its just a guess.

 

[rxmd]

Yep. I have never seen an electronic self timered camera without one (Although they possibly exist) so its a fair guess. But again its just a guess.

Maybe the red dot starts blinking. Apple-esque.

Philipp

 

[AndyPiper]

Which Visoflex are you planning to use? The Viso II won't fit on an M7 (top plate too tall for the prism to fit) and it looks like the M8 has the same extra height as the M7.

Also - the Visoflexes won't have zebra-coding for the camera to read - so while your EXIF _might_ show the shooting aperture, you still won't record whether the shot was with the Sonnar, or Hektor, or a Telyt.

I'm halfway considering buying a Viso for use with the M8 - as weird as it may seem. Visos are down to under $200 (I know where I can get a II for $95), so combined with a older lens (say a 280) it would actually be cheaper than buying even a basic Canikon SLR + a 300mm prime lens. Plus I could use my 75 or 90 M lenses as macros for free.

But I'm going to wait until I actually have the M8 in my hot little hands so that I can do a 'test fit' to make sure the Viso I buy will actually mount fully and correctly.

 

[rvaubel]

I'm halfway considering buying a Viso for use with the M8 - as weird as it may seem. ...................But I'm going to wait until I actually have the M8 in my hot little hands so that I can do a 'test fit' to make sure the Viso I buy will actually mount fully and correctly.

Me too. And your right, it doesn't make any sense, but it sure would be cool!

While nothing could be more practical than using my 20Da for macro work (it's the only time I use my DSLR), There's no denying that it would be fun to play with the Viso stuff especially with the bargain basement prices that they are being sold at.

Rex

 

[jlw]

I don't know where you get the idea that the blue dot is used to determine working aperture. You seem to be suggesting that it does it by comparing the direct reading with the one through the lens and using the ratio to determine actual f-stop.

I wrote a long post about this in another thread. I don't know whether or not the "blue dot" actually is an external metering sensor, but an external sensor certainly could be used to derive working aperture.

This isn't just some crackpot theory I made up. The Contax G2 works exactly this way to get a working aperture to imprint via its data back. It has an external meter sensor to handle metering of the 16mm Hologon (which blocks the TTL sensor) and this also is used as an input for working-aperture determination.

It's not really any different from something you could do yourself with a hand-held meter. The camera metering system measures film-plane brightness and, based on the ISO setting, computes what shutter speed will give a correct exposure. So if I told you what ISO setting I had set and what shutter speed my camera's meter had selected, you could determine my working aperture fairly accurately by setting a hand-held meter to the same ISO, pointing it at the same scene, and noting what f/number lined up against that shutter speed.

Of course the aperture derived is only approximate, for the reason you've pointed out (you can't count on the external and internal meter sensors reading exactly the same field) but it should be reasonably close in most cases and certainly is better than nothing!

Again, I don't know whether or not that's the real purpose of the "blue dot." But if Leica does want the M8 to be able to record the working aperture in its EXIF data, it will need to use some system like this. The alternative would be to redesign every M lens to include a mechanical or electronic encoder to signal the position of the aperture ring, and I'm sure Leica fans would just hate that!

 

[willemvelthoven]

Which Visoflex are you planning to use? The Viso II won't fit on an M7 (top plate too tall for the prism to fit) and it looks like the M8 has the same extra height as the M7.

On my RD1 I use a II and a IIImicro with 5x vertical viewfinders. Since the RD1 is higher than an M5, I can't use the 4x prism finders.

I expect the VII prism finder to work on the M8 since it does on the M7. and actually a visoflex III prism fits on a Visoflex II (I tried)

 

[jaapv]

I've already adapted my Visoflex 3 for the new format by making a mask.It is tarnparant, so it can be use for film camera's as well.

 

[willemvelthoven]

i never intended to spoof.

i never intended to spoof.

My spoof suggestion of the TV camera is just as ludicrous as yours - what good is an image correction system which is fooled by filters? Flash still presents a problem because unless they have a way of measuring the light reflected off the sensor, the in-camera sensor is not going to see anything when the flash fires. Actually begs the question whether their flash metering is going to be up to the M6TTL and M7, I expect there will be a dedicated flash unit from Metz.

I just thought it would be the only logical thing.

 

[jaapv]

Which Visoflex are you planning to use? The Viso II won't fit on an M7 (top plate too tall for the prism to fit) and it looks like the M8 has the same extra height as the M7.

Also - the Visoflexes won't have zebra-coding for the camera to read - so while your EXIF _might_ show the shooting aperture, you still won't record whether the shot was with the Sonnar, or Hektor, or a Telyt.

I'm halfway considering buying a Viso for use with the M8 - as weird as it may seem. Visos are down to under $200 (I know where I can get a II for $95), so combined with a older lens (say a 280) it would actually be cheaper than buying even a basic Canikon SLR + a 300mm prime lens. Plus I could use my 75 or 90 M lenses as macros for free.

But I'm going to wait until I actually have the M8 in my hot little hands so that I can do a 'test fit' to make sure the Viso I buy will actually mount fully and correctly.

Leica confirmed to me that the Visoflex III wil work without problems on the M8.
The only caveat was that the lever will not hit the shutter release squarely, but slightly offset, but the shutter will fire.

OMG! i just realised that my visoflexes will be blocking the view of my blue dot. Therefore the M8 will not be able to determine the aperture of my visoflex shots.

Because there is no coded information available on the Visoflex mount, it is no problem that the blue dot will be shaded, as it has no function without coding, as there is no lens information to integrate.