jvan01
Established
Just borrowed a Bessa I with Vaskar 105/4.5 lens. How do I advance the film to the correct start mark? The red film window does not match up to display the markings/numbers for modern 120 roll films (e.g., Ektar 100).
Voigtlander Bessa I question
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chris00nj
Young Luddite
Really? I don't think the lineup of numbers has changed. I have an Ikonta 6x9 and the numbers work out okay. You do have to wind the film for awhile before you get to #1
kuzano
Veteran
BESSA I 2 ruby windows, right????
BESSA I 2 ruby windows, right????
The Voigtlander Bessa 1 is a dual format folder. It is capable of shooting 6X9 or 6X4.5cm negatives/transparencies on 120. To shoot the smaller format there is a removable mask inside the camera.
If you are shooting without the mask, you use the first ruby window only, lining up the numbers in sequence.
If you have the mask (MOST of these have disappeared over the years), then you line the first number up with the first window. Then to shoot the second 645 frame, you move the first number to the second window. Progressing, to shoot the third 645 frame, you line the number 2 up with the first ruby window, and then move the number 2 to the second window to shoot the 4th 645 frame.
Shooting 6X9, take out the mask (remember, it's very likely already gone) and run the numbers progressively, ONLY using the first window. Never the second.
There is a tricky window cover system that holds the second window closed at all times when the mask is not installed.
If this is not clear, I have a Bessa with the mask and can provide pictures.
Earlier Bessa's, the Bessa RF and the Bessa-1 all used this mask/two window system.
The numbering system has not changed and the contemporary film works in all these dual format systems. The dual format Bessa I have with the mask is an earlier Bessa. I have also had two of the Bessa-1 models with the mask. On occasion, you will find one of the Bessa-1 models with a factory installed Color Skopar lens and Synchro Compur shutter.
They are actually very good shooters, and the front standards on the Bessa and Bessa-1 are usually more stable than the Bessa RF and the Bessa II.
However, the Bessa II is usually sought because of the coupled rangefinder and the Heliar and Apo Lanthar lens additions.
Again, if you need pics of the mask inside the camera, let me know. It's very confusing to have one of these camera's with the two windows and no mask. Puzzling indeed!
BESSA I 2 ruby windows, right????
The Voigtlander Bessa 1 is a dual format folder. It is capable of shooting 6X9 or 6X4.5cm negatives/transparencies on 120. To shoot the smaller format there is a removable mask inside the camera.
If you are shooting without the mask, you use the first ruby window only, lining up the numbers in sequence.
If you have the mask (MOST of these have disappeared over the years), then you line the first number up with the first window. Then to shoot the second 645 frame, you move the first number to the second window. Progressing, to shoot the third 645 frame, you line the number 2 up with the first ruby window, and then move the number 2 to the second window to shoot the 4th 645 frame.
Shooting 6X9, take out the mask (remember, it's very likely already gone) and run the numbers progressively, ONLY using the first window. Never the second.
There is a tricky window cover system that holds the second window closed at all times when the mask is not installed.
If this is not clear, I have a Bessa with the mask and can provide pictures.
Earlier Bessa's, the Bessa RF and the Bessa-1 all used this mask/two window system.
The numbering system has not changed and the contemporary film works in all these dual format systems. The dual format Bessa I have with the mask is an earlier Bessa. I have also had two of the Bessa-1 models with the mask. On occasion, you will find one of the Bessa-1 models with a factory installed Color Skopar lens and Synchro Compur shutter.
They are actually very good shooters, and the front standards on the Bessa and Bessa-1 are usually more stable than the Bessa RF and the Bessa II.
However, the Bessa II is usually sought because of the coupled rangefinder and the Heliar and Apo Lanthar lens additions.
Again, if you need pics of the mask inside the camera, let me know. It's very confusing to have one of these camera's with the two windows and no mask. Puzzling indeed!
JPD
Retina and Rollei user
I does. If you have loaded it with film, and looking at the closed back, you wind the film until (1) shows up in the first red window (the one on the right). You only use that red window for 6x9.
If you are using the 4x6 mask, you'll still use the 6x9 numbers. Number (1) in the first window, shoot, and wind so the same number (1) shows in the second window. Shot, and wind until you'll se number (2) in the first window, shoot and wind until the (2) is in the second window, and so on.
Here's the manual:
http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_bessa_i.pdf
JPD
Retina and Rollei user
The reason for the two window system is that 120-films didn't have markings for 6x4,5 back then.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Kuzano, what is the mask made of? How thick is it? Do you think you could get me the measurements of it, or a drawing/tracing of it, to make a DIY mask for my Bessa I? A picture or two of it both in and out of the camera would help as well.
I'd like to be able to shoot mine in 6x4.5 but I've never found a mask for sale.
Thanks,
William
jvan01
Established
Oops, I see my mistake: not winding on the film sufficiently before seeing the numbers.
William - you can see a picture of the mask here (it appears to be made out of thin metal similar to a dark slide) :
William - you can see a picture of the mask here (it appears to be made out of thin metal similar to a dark slide) :
jvan01
Established
There is a 645 mask for sale on Ebay for the Bessa II (think it should fit the Bessa I): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370347777895&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=M*F%3F&GUID=202be94e1290a02652f71a57ffa9aebf&itemid=370347777895&ff4=263602_263622
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Thank you for the heads up. I don't do ebay anymore (I stopped when they required paypal.) but I can try Mr. Li's web site instead.
Given my lack of budget, I'm much more inclined towards the DIY option though.
William
Given my lack of budget, I'm much more inclined towards the DIY option though.
William
kuzano
Veteran
That IS a mask for a Bessa I (or RF or early bessa)
That IS a mask for a Bessa I (or RF or early bessa)
The Bessa II was not a dual format camera. It never used a mask like this. The Bessa II was designed to ONLY shoot 6X9.
I have been told that the masks were slightly different dimensions for different models, but I seriously doubt that to be true throughout the dual format Bessa, Bessa RF and Bessa I.
After all the governing dimension would be the original 6X9 format.
If you look closely at the enlarged picture on the eBay listing, you will see two V shaped tabs that stick out from the surface and when you close the camera back, one of those V's engages a tab behind the corner of the film platen. That tab opens a lever that allows the use of the two windows at the same time for the smaller format. If the mask is not in the camera, the V does not engage the back... therefore the second window does not open, allowing you to only use the first window for 6X9.
The lips on each end of the mask slip under the ends of the film gate, by slowly bending the mask until the mask ends slide under the camera opening. The V tabs face out so they engage the back door when it is closed.
If you still need measurements, let me know. If I did not now have a mask, believe me, I would probably spring for the $95 for this one. It's the only thing keeping the camera from being dual format, and I have tried to find them before. I finally held off on buying any of the dual format Bessa's until I found one's with the mask. I even bought a trashed Bessa I just for the mask.
Lars
That IS a mask for a Bessa I (or RF or early bessa)
The Bessa II was not a dual format camera. It never used a mask like this. The Bessa II was designed to ONLY shoot 6X9.
I have been told that the masks were slightly different dimensions for different models, but I seriously doubt that to be true throughout the dual format Bessa, Bessa RF and Bessa I.
After all the governing dimension would be the original 6X9 format.
If you look closely at the enlarged picture on the eBay listing, you will see two V shaped tabs that stick out from the surface and when you close the camera back, one of those V's engages a tab behind the corner of the film platen. That tab opens a lever that allows the use of the two windows at the same time for the smaller format. If the mask is not in the camera, the V does not engage the back... therefore the second window does not open, allowing you to only use the first window for 6X9.
The lips on each end of the mask slip under the ends of the film gate, by slowly bending the mask until the mask ends slide under the camera opening. The V tabs face out so they engage the back door when it is closed.
If you still need measurements, let me know. If I did not now have a mask, believe me, I would probably spring for the $95 for this one. It's the only thing keeping the camera from being dual format, and I have tried to find them before. I finally held off on buying any of the dual format Bessa's until I found one's with the mask. I even bought a trashed Bessa I just for the mask.
Lars
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Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
I do believe there was a Bessa II that briefly made with dual format capabilty. It had a small window between the rangefinder window and and the viewfinder window. The clip on flashshoe mount had a cut out for the middle window. The back did have dual ports like the Bessa I for two different formats.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I can't afford that much for a camera part so that won't happen. I'd rather pay him $150 to get the 105/4.5 Skopar in Compur he's got there to upgrade my glass.
Mine's a Vaskar/Prontor model (with some foibles) so it wasn't all that expensive. I could probably make an appropriate mask out of a lighter wieght black tagboard but I'm going to need to think about how to handle the red window cutout.
Thanks for the information.
William
Mine's a Vaskar/Prontor model (with some foibles) so it wasn't all that expensive. I could probably make an appropriate mask out of a lighter wieght black tagboard but I'm going to need to think about how to handle the red window cutout.
Thanks for the information.
William
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
That mask is way over priced. They often turn up in a regular auctions and go for way less.
bgb
Well-known
the mask is very very thin and I suspect might be difficult to make at home if you are not skilled at metal work
mine came with the mask so i consider myself very lucky 😀
If you want photos of the mask I would be happy to photograph mine in detail
mine came with the mask so i consider myself very lucky 😀
If you want photos of the mask I would be happy to photograph mine in detail
W
wlewisiii
Guest
bgb, I would greatly appreciate it.
William
William
kuzano
Veteran
Here is a thought for you.
The window closures are twofold.
The opening knob on back of the camera that turns with finger pressure, actually opens both ruby windows at the same time.
The tab on the mask engages a separate lever that secondarily opens the second window for the time the mask is installed. So there are actually two closure blinds over the second window operating independently of one another.
If you can rig some sort of way to open the tab that the mask engages, and do this on the back itself, then you would be set up to use both ruby windows using only the friction turn button on back of the camera.
Then, all you would need would be a 645 mask in portrait mode in the center of the 6X9 opening.
Frankly, my 645 mask is in my Bessa all the time anyway, since I have other 6X9 cameras.
Remember that the 105 lens is slightly telephoto when used for 645 on this camera. Normal focal length for 645 is usually 75mm. I like the effect of the longer lens on this format. I's perfect for portraiture.
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binky
Established
can anybody help with a scan of the mask
can anybody help with a scan of the mask
Hi, I recently picked up a roughed up Bessa I myself. It doesn't come with a mask, but got me thinking about cutting up a simple one (although it might be tricky to make a tab to activate the second red window). Anyway, can someone help with a simple flat scan of an actual mask in order to make a template?
Thanks in advance
John
can anybody help with a scan of the mask
Hi, I recently picked up a roughed up Bessa I myself. It doesn't come with a mask, but got me thinking about cutting up a simple one (although it might be tricky to make a tab to activate the second red window). Anyway, can someone help with a simple flat scan of an actual mask in order to make a template?
Thanks in advance
John
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
Just DIY the 645 mask. I made mine from a piece of cardboard that I painted black and covered with wide clear tape to make it as smooth as possible. You need to make a small hole in the upper left corner to fit over a tiny stud above left of the film gate. A small flap on each side (I only have one) will help keep it in place. The flaps are tucked under the vertical film rollers on each side of the gate.
Without the proper mask to disengage the slider covering the left red window, I just glued the little lever behind the pressure plate so the window cover stays open.
My Bessa with the lowly Vaskar triplet delivers very good and crisp results.
645 is cheaper than 6x9, but the negatives are still amazing compared to 135 film.
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