Steve M.
Veteran
Some time ago I sold my Bessa II w/ Color Heliar and have really regretted it. I found this Bessa RF for about half the price and just got a few negs scanned from it. Film was Ilford Delta Pro 100, a film I'm beginning to really like. My preference is still Tri-X, but this Delta is pretty darn good.
The camera is easy to use, and unlike the Bessa II it has a separate finder for the rangefinder. Not a big thing if you've ever used a screw mount Leica. To my eyes it's uncoated Heliar is as good as the Color Heliar. Maybe less contrast, but w/ a yellow filter it's a very good lens, and has that unmistakable Heliar way of imaging.
The more I look at shots from Heliars, the more I wonder if I shouldn't just sell the Rolleiflex and crop these to 6x6 (as I did w/ one of the shots). It's a better lens than what's on 99% of medium format cameras, modern or classic. Very smooth, yet sharp at the same time. The scans are from an old Epson 2450 flatbed scanner, so there's a lot more detail in the negs that isn't showing up here.
If anyone's thinking of getting a Bessa RF, go for it. Great camera.
The camera is easy to use, and unlike the Bessa II it has a separate finder for the rangefinder. Not a big thing if you've ever used a screw mount Leica. To my eyes it's uncoated Heliar is as good as the Color Heliar. Maybe less contrast, but w/ a yellow filter it's a very good lens, and has that unmistakable Heliar way of imaging.
The more I look at shots from Heliars, the more I wonder if I shouldn't just sell the Rolleiflex and crop these to 6x6 (as I did w/ one of the shots). It's a better lens than what's on 99% of medium format cameras, modern or classic. Very smooth, yet sharp at the same time. The scans are from an old Epson 2450 flatbed scanner, so there's a lot more detail in the negs that isn't showing up here.
If anyone's thinking of getting a Bessa RF, go for it. Great camera.
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Congrats on a great old camera; the photos look excellent. Not sure why you'd be interested in cropping off 50% of the film area... Do you prefer the square proportions? Alternately, as shown in your first pic of the camera, it can be rotated to take vertically oriented shots! 
FallisPhoto
Veteran
I agree it's a great camera. I've worked on a bunch of them and the worst thing I've run into so far is one where someone glued the rangefinder adjustment screws down with epoxy. Other than that, most just need cleaning and a few simple adjustments to be back in 100% working order. One thing to look out for is the strut on the right-hand side as you are facing the front of the camera. For some reason, on about half the cameras I have seen, it is bent pretty badly, like someone couldn't figure out how to close it and tried to force it. If that's the case, I don't know why it would be like that only on one side though.
Ben Blacket
Established
I really want one of these!
Anyone interested in selling/trading theirs?
Skopar/Heliar, I don't mind.
Anyone interested in selling/trading theirs?
Skopar/Heliar, I don't mind.
Steve M.
Veteran
Thanks for the heads up on the struts. I'll keep an eye on mine, but I bet it's like you said, someone tried to force it shut w/o knowing where the latch was hidden.
Right, I really prefer 6x6, although the shots are super sharp from corner to corner w/ 6x9. But 6x6 is a great format and my preference. I often hear people complain that these old cameras have film flatness issues or aren't sharp in the corners. Well, I would challenge that. These things take tack sharp shots. I think it's because you can give the film wind a little nudge right before you take your shot, pulling the film completely taut.
It's just amazing to me that these old cameras are capable of such great photos, and you can still fold them up and slip them into a big pocket.
Right, I really prefer 6x6, although the shots are super sharp from corner to corner w/ 6x9. But 6x6 is a great format and my preference. I often hear people complain that these old cameras have film flatness issues or aren't sharp in the corners. Well, I would challenge that. These things take tack sharp shots. I think it's because you can give the film wind a little nudge right before you take your shot, pulling the film completely taut.
It's just amazing to me that these old cameras are capable of such great photos, and you can still fold them up and slip them into a big pocket.
jj9641
Newbie
I just bought one with 3.8/105mm heliar lens,i wonder if it is a sepcail version.anyway i think it is a good camera
kuzano
Veteran
Did yours come with the 645 mask.....
Did yours come with the 645 mask.....
The Bessa RF AND the Bessa I (not rangefinder) originally came with a 645 mask that mounted in the film plane window. It allowed for 16 shots per roll on 120. That's the reason for the two ruby windows, one of which does not open if you don't have the mask in the camera.
My RF helomar, had the mask, and one of the Bessa I's I had also had the original mask.
It's the same mask in both models. I interchanged them to test this. If you can find the mask alone, they generally sell for around $100. The mask shoots 645 in Portrait mode and the count (window placements) are right on for 16 image and proper frame spacing.
Great way to expand the use of the camera. BTW, my helomar was quite good for only being a triplett. I've been looking for another Bessa RF, but with the Skopar or Heliar lens. In the absence of finding a Bessa RF, I would settle for a Bessa I, if it had the optional Color Skopar in Synchro Compur shutter, AND the 645 mask.
Up to par with any of the old rangefinder MF foders in the market, with the Heliar lens at least.
Regarding the film flatness myths... there is something to consider there. I never cock and wind on any folder when done shooting for a session. If the film is already on the shooting frame when you open it, and if you tend to snap the door open, the vacuum in the bellows can pull the film away from the film platen. This would contribute to a film flatness problem if the film is forward of the film plane.
My shut down habit, which also lends consistency to my remembering where I left of, is to always close the camera gently on the last exposed frame. Then when I use the camera again, I open it and then wind on/cock the shutter, which pulls a clean unexposed frame of film across the platen.
Some pooh pooh this logic, but most of my old folders have always been very good image getters, and I attribute some of that to a consistent pattern of using the camera to assure flat film at exposure.
Did yours come with the 645 mask.....
The Bessa RF AND the Bessa I (not rangefinder) originally came with a 645 mask that mounted in the film plane window. It allowed for 16 shots per roll on 120. That's the reason for the two ruby windows, one of which does not open if you don't have the mask in the camera.
My RF helomar, had the mask, and one of the Bessa I's I had also had the original mask.
It's the same mask in both models. I interchanged them to test this. If you can find the mask alone, they generally sell for around $100. The mask shoots 645 in Portrait mode and the count (window placements) are right on for 16 image and proper frame spacing.
Great way to expand the use of the camera. BTW, my helomar was quite good for only being a triplett. I've been looking for another Bessa RF, but with the Skopar or Heliar lens. In the absence of finding a Bessa RF, I would settle for a Bessa I, if it had the optional Color Skopar in Synchro Compur shutter, AND the 645 mask.
Up to par with any of the old rangefinder MF foders in the market, with the Heliar lens at least.
Regarding the film flatness myths... there is something to consider there. I never cock and wind on any folder when done shooting for a session. If the film is already on the shooting frame when you open it, and if you tend to snap the door open, the vacuum in the bellows can pull the film away from the film platen. This would contribute to a film flatness problem if the film is forward of the film plane.
My shut down habit, which also lends consistency to my remembering where I left of, is to always close the camera gently on the last exposed frame. Then when I use the camera again, I open it and then wind on/cock the shutter, which pulls a clean unexposed frame of film across the platen.
Some pooh pooh this logic, but most of my old folders have always been very good image getters, and I attribute some of that to a consistent pattern of using the camera to assure flat film at exposure.
jnoir
Well-known
+1
My favorite 6x9 folder. Mine's even boxed :dance:
My favorite 6x9 folder. Mine's even boxed :dance:
BTW, that theory about the vacuum... Well, cameras are far from being air tight, so I can't see where the vacuum can be produced.
Still, it doesn't hurt, and indeed you can help film flatness :-D
Still, it doesn't hurt, and indeed you can help film flatness :-D
kuzano
Veteran
They cut the corners of ground glass.....
They cut the corners of ground glass.....
tHEY
Don't be too sure about that "not airtight" comment. When is the last time you were shut inside an old folding camera and did not "near die" because of Oxygen asphyxiation?
Yes, it may be somewhat mythical, or urban myth, if you will. They cut the corners off many of the ground glass in large format (4x5 up). That's to relieve vacuum pressure as you move the front standard, if you move it fast. Similarly, SNAPPING the front door open on any folder slams the bellows out rapidly creating a vacuum. Manufacturers eventually learned to provide an avenue in the back of the camera for air to travel through. However, many older folders were built airtight inadvertently to provide light leaks. Seriously, look at the platen on many old folders. It pushed the film against the film plane rails in many cases all around the perimeter of the film gate (window). Moving forward through the bellows to the shutter and lens, you will not often find any air escape transit in or out of the enclosed area, that would also not contribute to a light leak.
Furthermore, many backs were developed for providing small holes in the film platen and attaching a vacuum system to hold the film against the platen. Contax was notable in the 70's for providing such a system on one of their SLR cameras, where one would surely not suspect that film moving away from the film platen could happen.
So whether there is vacuum produced by a folding camera may be a conflict for some people, It certainly cannot hurt to wind on "after" opening the camera, and pulling the film tight against the platen. Furthermore, it might avoid a problem of the film frame gathering dust while it's traveling around in the camera under a folded bellows, or dust off the bellows when the camera is first opened, viola' first frame shot covered with dust because it was not freshly rolled into the camera when the camera is opened.
And then there is the age old "Whine" about "I lost a Pulitzer prize winning shot because my camera was not cocked and a fresh frame in place when I saw the opportunity".
I'm not suggesting that you go out unprepared. Surely, when you are out shooting take the time to prep the camera for shooting when you get out there.
I am suggesting that this not winding on until you open the camera again will assure that the first frame in a session has the opportunity to be as good as the last. So, I am saying, when storing the camera until your next outing, DO NOT wind on... do not cock the shutter. Do that when you are out shooting and certainly be ready.
They cut the corners of ground glass.....
tHEY
+1
My favorite 6x9 folder. Mine's even boxed :dance:
BTW, that theory about the vacuum... Well, cameras are far from being air tight, so I can't see where the vacuum can be produced.
Still, it doesn't hurt, and indeed you can help film flatness :-D
Don't be too sure about that "not airtight" comment. When is the last time you were shut inside an old folding camera and did not "near die" because of Oxygen asphyxiation?
Yes, it may be somewhat mythical, or urban myth, if you will. They cut the corners off many of the ground glass in large format (4x5 up). That's to relieve vacuum pressure as you move the front standard, if you move it fast. Similarly, SNAPPING the front door open on any folder slams the bellows out rapidly creating a vacuum. Manufacturers eventually learned to provide an avenue in the back of the camera for air to travel through. However, many older folders were built airtight inadvertently to provide light leaks. Seriously, look at the platen on many old folders. It pushed the film against the film plane rails in many cases all around the perimeter of the film gate (window). Moving forward through the bellows to the shutter and lens, you will not often find any air escape transit in or out of the enclosed area, that would also not contribute to a light leak.
Furthermore, many backs were developed for providing small holes in the film platen and attaching a vacuum system to hold the film against the platen. Contax was notable in the 70's for providing such a system on one of their SLR cameras, where one would surely not suspect that film moving away from the film platen could happen.
So whether there is vacuum produced by a folding camera may be a conflict for some people, It certainly cannot hurt to wind on "after" opening the camera, and pulling the film tight against the platen. Furthermore, it might avoid a problem of the film frame gathering dust while it's traveling around in the camera under a folded bellows, or dust off the bellows when the camera is first opened, viola' first frame shot covered with dust because it was not freshly rolled into the camera when the camera is opened.
And then there is the age old "Whine" about "I lost a Pulitzer prize winning shot because my camera was not cocked and a fresh frame in place when I saw the opportunity".
I'm not suggesting that you go out unprepared. Surely, when you are out shooting take the time to prep the camera for shooting when you get out there.
I am suggesting that this not winding on until you open the camera again will assure that the first frame in a session has the opportunity to be as good as the last. So, I am saying, when storing the camera until your next outing, DO NOT wind on... do not cock the shutter. Do that when you are out shooting and certainly be ready.
kuzano
Veteran
Using Ground Glass to focus or test RF on a Folder.
Using Ground Glass to focus or test RF on a Folder.
On many of my old folders, I had a method for focusing using Ground Glass viewing, or calibrating the rangefinder using a Ground Glass at the film plane.
Here is a post from 2011 on RFF, where many discussed the issue of "wind on" after opening the camera.
Also found here is information about using a ground glass focusing method on the camera. It's cumbersome, but until you calibrate the front cell focusing on a non rangefinder, or calibrate the range finder, old folders are pretty "hit and miss". They are often such wonderful cameras, with great lens possibilities, why not spend a little time getting them "in tune" and fully operational.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-109321.html
Using Ground Glass to focus or test RF on a Folder.
On many of my old folders, I had a method for focusing using Ground Glass viewing, or calibrating the rangefinder using a Ground Glass at the film plane.
Here is a post from 2011 on RFF, where many discussed the issue of "wind on" after opening the camera.
Also found here is information about using a ground glass focusing method on the camera. It's cumbersome, but until you calibrate the front cell focusing on a non rangefinder, or calibrate the range finder, old folders are pretty "hit and miss". They are often such wonderful cameras, with great lens possibilities, why not spend a little time getting them "in tune" and fully operational.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-109321.html
jnoir
Well-known
Owning, restoring and then using several dozens of folders has taught me that lens panel alignment, struts rigidity or pressure plate are actually far more critical when speaking about film flatness and sharpness. Not to mention that pressure plates, in many (if not all) cases, were adjusted for films with thicker emulsions and/or thicker backing papers...
Don't take me wrong, I am not saying that "The Vacuum Theory" is not true, simply that I don't believe in it. On top of that, for me letting the door open slap bang without accompanying and delaying the motion with the hand is a misuse of the camera, kind of letting an advance lever return with full force. I don't recall any camera manual providing guidance to let the front door open by its own inertia... I always counteract the force of the springy door with the hand.
Nevertheless, any measure taken to ensure that the moment is captured for the rest of the eternity is a good measure
Don't take me wrong, I am not saying that "The Vacuum Theory" is not true, simply that I don't believe in it. On top of that, for me letting the door open slap bang without accompanying and delaying the motion with the hand is a misuse of the camera, kind of letting an advance lever return with full force. I don't recall any camera manual providing guidance to let the front door open by its own inertia...
I always counteract the force of the springy door with the hand.Nevertheless, any measure taken to ensure that the moment is captured for the rest of the eternity is a good measure
David Murphy
Veteran
Nice shots - great lens, beautiful camera
graywolf
Well-known
tHEY
Don't be too sure about that "not airtight" comment. When is the last time you were shut inside an old folding camera and did not "near die" because of Oxygen asphyxiation?
Yes, it may be somewhat mythical, or urban myth, if you will. They cut the corners off many of the ground glass in large format (4x5 up). That's to relieve vacuum pressure as you move the front standard
Nope, that is so you can check an aerial image of the corners to see if your lens is covering the movements you are using
Vacuum backs were intended for graphic arts cameras (like 20x24 and larger). They were only used for high precision photography in smaller formats, such as micro photography, astro photography, and high precision slide copying. They were intended more to prevent the film from shifting than to hold it flat.
That kind of assumes that you have plenty of time to open the camera, focus, cock the shutter, and then take a photo. Fine for landscapes, not much use for the kids playing in the park.
I doubt anyone is saying, "Store your camera with film in it, make sure it is wound on, and the shutter is cocked." What some of us are saying is that we never saw any evidence that opening the camera sucks the film off the pressure plate. That is a very different thing.
JPD
Retina and Rollei user
It's thin metal and bends very easily if you don't know that you must press the button under the lens before folding the camera.
This "strut" is only on the right side. There are acutally two of them, one over the other. They are both connected to the rangefinder mechanism and move on a rail when you focus. The outer one, which is the one that you're talking about, is there to give stability to the lens standard. The other one is seldom bent, so the camera continues to focus correctly.
My E-Bessa has the Heliar lens. It came without the mask for 4.5x6, but I had one for the Bessa I and it fits. I should use it more. This is one of the few folders you actually want to shoot with large apertures. The transition from sharp to background blur is wonderful with the Heliar. The object(s) in focus pop out like 3D.
Eric T
Well-known
I have a Bessa II with the 3.5 Skopar lens. The problem I have is that the photos are out of focus on the edges. I attribute this to the film plane not being flat in the camera. Is there s simple fix to this?
Thanks.
Thanks.
gliderbee
Well-known
I have the opportunity to buy a Bessa RF with color-heliar for 450 euro and the seller might accept another offer. It's in very good working condition. Is this price reasonable?
Thanks,
Stefan
Thanks,
Stefan
Pete B
Well-known
I've PMed you.
Pete
Pete
Thomas78
Well-known
The Ektar 100 mm f/3.5 from the Kodak Medalist (II) is also a Heliar type lens. Here one image at medium aperture (5.6 or 8):
Medalist2_04_Delta 100_008 von thomas.78 auf Flickr
chippy
foo was here
most of the old folders arnt "air tight" as such . most dont use flocking/seals etc in the doors to assist in preventing light entering, they use light traps instead which does allow small amounts of air to flow through, if they used seals then they would be more airtight, if not completely. having said that, in theory if the bellows are extended at such speed to move the air inside quicker than it can be drawn in through the back then it can be possible to move the film, if your bellows are deforming inwards its a sure indication that your film has also possibly been moved, most MF folders extend at a slow enough pace but there are some which open fast, quite a few of the 127 and 35mm folders extend quite fast with powerful springs set ups on the front door too.
regardless of this it is good practice to finish winding on film to the next shot in folders just prior to taking, a shot. if individuals prefer not to and get satisfactory results then by all means continue, its not a law, but it remains good advice to give someone that is pondering a method and sound reasons for doing so, one of them is many of the folders either due to design or old age can let the film unravel a tad from either or both spools, particularly if the cameras been rattling around in bag or on your shoulder for while. if your standard practice is to finish winding on just prior to taking a shot you ensure tension on the film, it doesnt hurt, actually its better.
folders generally (the type usually discussed on this forum e.g late 1930's onwards) dont have a film flatness problem, generally the idea that they do stems from earlier folders, box cameras etc or very cheap production folders that didnt have a pressure plate, at all! obviously without the pressure plate the camera relies entirely on film tension but since they also usually have very slow lenses even on those it doesnt always show up as a problem in the final print
the reason i say 'finish' winding on before a shot is because i have always advocated that with red window cameras to get the best percentage of keepers one needs to avoid dud shots that are either left blank or double exposed. as with all things if your routine works for you then by all means continue but i have seen more people than i can count, young or old (so it cant be due to vagaries of old age neurons ) waste film and ruin shots due to forgetting if they have taken a shot or not or wound on already. my method is to wind on a little after each shot, just a quick flick of the knob that becomes habit, you will barely notice doing it, so that the number cant be seen in the window (you dont need to raise the camera to look, just a short turn of the knob is all thats needed). then when you next raise the camera to take a shot, 5 min, 2 hours or 2 months later, no numbers are visible which tells you you must wind on, in the process it ensures tension and film flatness when its needed and i have found helps people minimise dud shots
since its no longer 1930 if speed is what your after then there are many other choices for taking snap shots (folders are fine though, a little practice and routine and you get the kids playing), however the bessa rf has one particular good attribute in that you can focus before opening the camera which kinda speeds things up and can be quite handy for not being as obvious taking a shot
cheers
chippy
regardless of this it is good practice to finish winding on film to the next shot in folders just prior to taking, a shot. if individuals prefer not to and get satisfactory results then by all means continue, its not a law, but it remains good advice to give someone that is pondering a method and sound reasons for doing so, one of them is many of the folders either due to design or old age can let the film unravel a tad from either or both spools, particularly if the cameras been rattling around in bag or on your shoulder for while. if your standard practice is to finish winding on just prior to taking a shot you ensure tension on the film, it doesnt hurt, actually its better.
folders generally (the type usually discussed on this forum e.g late 1930's onwards) dont have a film flatness problem, generally the idea that they do stems from earlier folders, box cameras etc or very cheap production folders that didnt have a pressure plate, at all! obviously without the pressure plate the camera relies entirely on film tension but since they also usually have very slow lenses even on those it doesnt always show up as a problem in the final print
the reason i say 'finish' winding on before a shot is because i have always advocated that with red window cameras to get the best percentage of keepers one needs to avoid dud shots that are either left blank or double exposed. as with all things if your routine works for you then by all means continue but i have seen more people than i can count, young or old (so it cant be due to vagaries of old age neurons
) waste film and ruin shots due to forgetting if they have taken a shot or not or wound on already. my method is to wind on a little after each shot, just a quick flick of the knob that becomes habit, you will barely notice doing it, so that the number cant be seen in the window (you dont need to raise the camera to look, just a short turn of the knob is all thats needed). then when you next raise the camera to take a shot, 5 min, 2 hours or 2 months later, no numbers are visible which tells you you must wind on, in the process it ensures tension and film flatness when its needed and i have found helps people minimise dud shotssince its no longer 1930 if speed is what your after then there are many other choices for taking snap shots (folders are fine though, a little practice and routine and you get the kids playing), however the bessa rf has one particular good attribute in that you can focus before opening the camera which kinda speeds things up and can be quite handy for not being as obvious taking a shot
cheers
chippy
chippy
foo was here
to be certain it really needs to checked over, likely the problem, assuming its not the lens character is somewhere else. checking it with ground glass and a loupe will help tell whats going on
cheers
chippy