Voigtlander VAG, anyone who use one?

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vegard_dino

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Hi all.

The folder bug has got to me.

:)

Looking at a nice old Voigtlander VAG folding plate camera with a 120 6*9 film back. Good, as plate film is hard to find where I live.

But, how are these old cameras? Anyone who have one?
How does the photos turn out?
 
I've used a plate-film camera with a 120 holder (Kodak / Nagel Recomar '18' with a 10.5cm Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar lens). They are best used with a tripod, and they take a good deal of time to take a single photo.

First, you make sure that you have the ground-glass back in place and the hood open. Open the shutter to "T" and open the aperture to its widest setting.

Frame and focus your photo. Like a view camera, it will be upside down.

Close the shutter, remove the ground-glass back and insert the roll-film holder and remove its dark slide.

Set your aperture and shutter speed. Take your photo. It's best if you use a cable release, so you don't move the camera.

Wind to the next frame and either take another photo or insert the dark slide so you can remove the roll-film holder and insert the ground-glass back.

Because you're shooting 120 roll film, a folding camera is so much easier to use. You lose the lateral movements, but the photo-taking process is so much simpler with a folding camera.
 
The VAG was the entry level model for Voigtländer's series of plate cameras around the 1920's.

There was the VAG (acronym for Voigtländer AG?), then came the Avus (Aktiengesellschaft Voigtländer Und Sohn?), then the Bergheil and, on top of them all, the Alpin.

For now we'll set aside the Bergheil and the Alpin, since both command premium prices (the former because of its Heliar lens and has bayonet-mounted interchangeable lenses, the latter because of its collectible status due to low numbers and high specs).

The VAG, as a cheaper model, lacks some features, the most important of which were the single extension bellows and, IIRC the lack of capability to raise the lens. It usually mounts cheaper shutters, Vario or Ibsor.

The AVUS is a pretty decent camera, with lens shifting like the VAG adding the raising capability. Double extension bellows (the manual explains how to get magnification removing some lens cells). It even has a neat bubble level fitted to the reflex brillant finder.

I own a couple of 9x12 AVUS (one with modern rim-set Compur, the other with an older dial-set Compur modified for flash sync) and a late model, rim-set Compur 6.5x9. Late 6.5x9 AVUS are, IMHO, awesomely beautiful, with lots of "modern details" (for that era) and chromed parts.

Rollfilm adapters were manufactured by different makers, I assume the one you're watching comes with a Patent Rollex type? If it comes with a RADA-type it is worth a few extra bucks IMHO.

If you ever have access to sheet film, get a Patent Etui. As compact as it gets.
 
Thank you for the reply.
Well, I think I stay to folders that was made for film and not plate film.
But, maybe one day...Maybe...:rolleyes:
 
I used to use a KW Patent Etui, which is about the smallest folding plate camera you can find with a roll film back. It was a bit slow in use (as Mike explains above), but I was happy with the image quality and really liked having some (limited) movements. I'd get another if I could find one with a roll film back.

I used some movements on this although I didn't quite get rid of the converging verticals on the benches:

3851006769_ff117ec2f5_z.jpg
 
Sheet film

Sheet film

Btw. U can still buy sheet film in 9x12. I think also in 6x9 as well, but since I don't own a camera that uses 6x9 sheet film...

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/42019150-Foma-Fomapan-100-iso-9-x-12-cm-50-sheets?cat_id=404

One thing to consider is a 9x12 as well. There were 120 roll film backs for the more popular cameras of the day..such as Kodak Recommar and Voitlander Berheil used the same holder design, so finding a roll film back should be easier if the seller does not have one.

Gary
 
Thanks for the reply.

Nice photo. WOW what a camera:).
Thanks for showing.

matt_mcg2, slow in taking, but the photo turn out very nice.

Thanks.
 
I have several 9x12, 3 with the aftermarket rangefinders. I have a Bee Bee with interchangable lenses (also a 6x9 with interchangable lenses). I don't find them that hard to use. Both my Avus have ibsor shutters, a surprisingly easy shutter to clean when needed. If you are going to be very precise then yes, you need to use the ground glass. Otherwise, the brilliant finder if it is working, or the wire frames, if they are still on the camera will allow 9x12 use quite easily. If using a roll film back, then masks would be best for the brilliant or wire frame finders.

9x12 film can be purchased, but selection is rather limited. I buy 4x5 film and cut it down. I have about 22 cut film holders. They are still available from time to time, but are getting harder to find, and sometimes more expensive because of that. The metal cut film holders were probably the best thing to use during their heyday, but do add weight to your kit. The again, who goes around fast shooting LF film.

I have never removed lens elements for closeup on a 9x12. I know that is done on some older LF lenses. I may need to check that out. Auxillery lenses were made for closeups if you wanted to go beyond the 1:1 allowed by double extension bellows (on those that allowed it). You could also get aux lenses for the equivalent of 35mm and 200mm lenses. I have a set. You can also get series VI pushons for filters, including IR. As mentioned, many of the 9x12 had both rise/fall, and shift.

Vegard dino - the choice if camera is very personal. But I think if you get a 6x9 or 9x12 folding bed camera, you will be pleasantly surprised at the ease of use and the quality of photos possible.

A 9x12 is almost 4x5, but is a much lighter camera to carry, and probably 5 to 10 cut film holders is all you would need at a time for most outings. If all you want one for is to use roll films, I would go to a 6x9 with roll film back, or just go to a 6x9 folder. I have a Zeiss 6x9 that is wonderfully light and compact, yet has that good Zeiss lens.
 
BW400CN said:
I use a Voigtländer Avus 6x9 Skopar 4,5 10,5cm with Rada Rollfilm Back


Voigtländer Avus 6x9 von BW400CN auf Flickr


Voigtländer Avus 6x9 Ilford XP2 von BW400CN auf Flickr

Scanned with an old Epson 1240 U and the vuescan demo version - I think I will buy it soon!
Click to expand...

That's a nice looking outfit! I have one 6x9, a Bee Bee with interchangable lenses (I have yet to find another lens). I only have the one double metal cut film holder. I would love to have several more of those. It does have a film pack with several more shots. I keep debating if I want to keep that on there or finish it off and develop all of the photos.
 
oftheherd said:
That's a nice looking outfit! I have one 6x9, a Bee Bee with interchangable lenses (I have yet to find another lens). I only have the one double metal cut film holder. I would love to have several more of those. It does have a film pack with several more shots. I keep debating if I want to keep that on there or finish it off and develop all of the photos.
Click to expand...

I would love to hve the masks for 6x6 and 6x4,5 for the Rada and maybe an other Rada to change between films.
At the moment I try some color shoots with a Fuji Reala 100 - let´s see what we will get ;-)

Has somebody tried colodium wetplates with a 6x9 plate cam?
 
I have never tried glass plates of any kind, but I have been mildly tempted from time to time. I see Radas on ebay all the time, and some with masks. But they seem rediculously expensive. One has to be careful, as some sellers don't seem to know if they have 4x5 or 6x9 or 9x12. I have one for 9x12. I also have another one somewhere that I think may be for 6x9, but I don't know, and can't find it now to check. I'm sure I'll run across it some day and wonder why it was where I found it.
 
AFAIK they were not made for 4x5, but it would be interesting to know otherwise to keep an eye on them.

They are pretty easy to spot: the 9x12 holders have a plain plate sorrounding the back, while 6.5x9 versions don't.

Here a picture from my archives, don't have a comparison at hand with RADAs only. The one in the middle is the 9x12 one (6x9 only, the other two are dual format, one 6x9/6x4.5 Rollex and one 6x6/6x9 RADA):

7257392764_66a9836ca9_z.jpg

​

Mounted on two of my AVUS, 9x12 on the left, 6.5x9 to the right

7257391848_7cbba860f6_z.jpg

​
 
I guess I'm going to have to look around a bit to see it the other back I have is for a 6x9. It might well be. I don't recall now what Voigtlander I have, if it is the VAG or AVUS. I will have to look at that as well. All I have in my car right now is a Kodak (Nagle). But both mine have the Ibsor shutter. I actually got the second with the idea of using a the shutter lever spring from it. I have since found a company that says they will make the spring. I have yet to try that out.
 
BW400CN said:
Got an other Avus 6x9 this week!
Like my first above with Skopar 4,5 10,5cm but with Ibsor shutter and Rollex film back - a bit rusty and in need of a CLA but worse to give her a try!
Got some glasplate holder too and found a place to still buy glasplates:

http://www.lumiere-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=240&x592c7=dm1dgcchl2cac4dava26dra8qik941i8

Maybe I will try it this year to do some plates.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on the new acquisition. Will the shutter be part of your CLA? Have you worked on Ibsors before? If not, I can share some photos and experience. The shutter for a 105mm lens should be the same as for the 135mm lens.
 
oftheherd said:
Congratulations on the new acquisition. Will the shutter be part of your CLA? Have you worked on Ibsors before? If not, I can share some photos and experience. The shutter for a 105mm lens should be the same as for the 135mm lens.
Click to expand...

I cleaned the cam got the rust awy and anything is moving nicely - all the screws had be very tight so you couldn't shift anymore - but that´s gone.
Then I soaked the shutter in lighter fluid for 1 day and it was perfect - but after 50 times releasing it - maybe a bit to fast - somthing went wrong and the shutter feals like the spring is gone. It stays open and closes when you fire it!!! - Time ain´t running any more.
Not sure if I can do it by my own - I never ever done a shutter before - so maybe I find somebody in Austria or Germany to repair the Ibsor.

Yes the shutter for the 105 is the same as for 135 both are 00 size.
Would be nice to find a 135mm lens - maybe with shutter - you can change the lenses easily by screwing the front and rear element out.
 
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