Wanting a trade...

[MarkoKovacevic]

Hey all.

I've always wanted an M, so much that I would part with my favourite lens, and shoot a Jupiter 8 for a while, to have one.

I'd like to trade a EX condition Leica IIIa with 15mm VF[bgn condition, all coating on the plastic has worn off, making it shiny. In addition, it's grinded a bit on one side to allow the shutter speed dial to lift] and LN- 15mm f4.5 CV lens.

Do you guys think this is a worthwhile trade, for say, a user/bgn M2? In addition, would anyone even go for this trade?

Marko

 

[elshaneo]

I'd say not worth the trade in. Be patient, save your pennies, the right time to buy the Leica M2 will come sooner than you think 🙂

 

[MarkoKovacevic]

I somewhat agree.. maybe I shouldn't trade/sell my first Leica.

Though I see something like this http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...wproduct.php/product/19426/cat/1/limit/recent and I'd like the modern amenities like the non precut film loading and rapid wind. I also like the larger size of the M.

 

[raid]

Marko,
Keep your first Leica and look for a clean Canon P. It is more functional than a Leica M2.

 

[MarkoKovacevic]

I have a few problems with the Canon P - The easily wrinkled shutter curtains, the back loading(for some reason I really prefer bottom) and that it's not an M, so it cannot take many of the new, modern lenses. It's just somewhat limiting to have to stay with screwmount.

 

[raid]

Marko,
The wrinkled shutter curtains don't do any harm.
I understand your views though.

I wish you a clean M2 then!

 

[MarkoKovacevic]

Thanks Raid! I just don't know if anyone would even do a trade, what do you think?

 

[raid]

It is very unlikely, Marko. RFF has made the M2 like a cult-Leica. I feel that I should have bought an M2 years ago, but I never did.

You have to sell to buy.

 

[elshaneo]

I totally agree with Raid on the Leica M2, and it is indeed the quintessential Leica M camera ever made. Tom Abrahamsson would concur with us on that 🙂

I started with my very first Leica M camera as the Leica M2, but sold it when I got the Leica MP, which I then traded in for the Leica M7, which I then sold in the end, to buy another Leica M2. I'm back to where I started LOL 😛

 

[raid]

I will one day get a very clean M2. Maybe I will sell the Hexar RF and some other equipment in order to buy an M2. It has to be a very nice M2 though. My cameras usually are very clean.

 

[MarkoKovacevic]

My cameras usually are very clean.

I may be different, but I don't mind what condition the camera is in, as long as it works perfectly/well.

 

[elshaneo]

A very clean/excellent condition Leica M2 was the Classified Ads a few weeks ago, and it was priced at 850 USD if I'm not mistaken.

As for the bargain user condition, the Leica M2 was priced around 600 USD.

I guess that as from now, you're going to save for around 600 USD 🙂

 

[Beemermark]

It is very unlikely, Marko. RFF has made the M2 like a cult-Leica.

I do not understand why the M2 is so fashionable right now. Up until the MP the M4 was the camera, and usually overpriced. The M3 and M4 cameras were always the camera that were the best made. The M2 is a nice camera and was usually cheaper since it did not have all the features of the M4 (ST, internal auto film counter, self loading, etc). The M2 was made, and sold, as the poor man's M4. Now it seems that the worm has turned and the M2 is more $$$ than the M4. The M4-2 had a lot of teething problems (I had one, piece of junk) and the M4-P was a much better camera, but not as nice as the M4 (you got 6 frames in the VF, which most people don't use and don't like and you lost the self timer and solid brass top).

Cults are funny.

 

[raid]

We live in Leica Land at RFF. Leica Land has its own rules.
Hopefully, one day soon, the M2 is put back "in its place".

 

[burninfilm]

From what I've seen, nice M4s are still selling for more than M2s, all things being equal. The M2 has some really nice features, such as the simple 35/50/90 frameline set, with just one frameline showing at a time. The rangefinder/viewfinder is the most important part when it comes to rangefinder cameras, and the M2 certainly has one of the best.

Just a few corrections about the above info. The M2 was NEVER made as a cheaper alternative to the M4. Just look up the production dates. It was made as a cheaper alternative to the M3. Yes, that's right, the M3 was once thought to be the best Leica M-mount camera. Used M2s were sold to those who didn't want to pay for a new M4. Also, there are a LOT of M2s with a self timer. Finally, many M4-Ps had brass tops.

 

[Beemermark]

I meant to say that the M2 was a cheaper alternative to the M4. The M2 was introduced for those photographers that wanted to use a 35mm lens without goggles. In 1964 the M2 was $210 and the M3 was $297, quite a difference. The M4 was introduced about a year before production ended on the M3 & M2 in 1968. The M4 was $309, so about 35% more than the M2 which was still new on dealer shelves for sometime after production ceased. So for someone wanting an M body that they could use the 35mm lens the M2 was a cheaper alternative.

I believe the M2, M3 and M4 all used the same viewfinder optics, so there is no difference there. While the M4 does have the 35 and 135 framelines together it really isn't very noticeable, the 135 framelines correspond roughly to the metering area of the MR-4 meter (the actual metering area is the 90 framelines).

There are many variations of the M2 and when the ST was given as an option in 1963 (?) it was a $50 option, or about 25% of the body. Thus M2's with ST were / are somewhat scarce.

As far as the M3 body being the best made Leica I wouldn't disagree. The discussion for decades was which was the better camera - the M3 or M4. Nobody every considered the M2 as the best camera (of the 3).

I never knew that the M4-P was made with a brass top. After my M4-2 fiasco I hung on to my M4. Were they all made with brass tops or just special models that were made for engraving?

Finally, I never meant to imply, stated or otherwise, that the M2 isn't a great camera. It is, but I'd still rather have an M4 anytime of the day -🙂

 

[burninfilm]

Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth at all... just making sure the right info was out there! 😉

It makes sense that new M2s were available when the M4s started being sold. I wasn't around at the time, so what I know only comes from production dates listed in reference material.

The M3 has some different optics in the rangefinder, giving a stronger .91 magnification compared to the .72 of the M2/M4. also, the framelines in the M3 work a bit differently, with the 50mm frameline always being visible. So, there are quite a few differences between the M3 finder and the M2/M4 finder. If you want to shoot some really fast 50mm or 90mm lenses, the M3 is the way to go. Otherwise, I completely agree with you... the M4 is a superior camera compared to the M2. The faster film loading and presence of a REAL rewind lever is enough to convince me!

Not all of the M4-Ps had brass tops. Many of the earlier cameras had the brass top, but later in production they switched over to the zinc top. However, I'm pretty sure the Leica script was stamped, not engraved like earlier Leicas such as the M4.