Washing film with cold water

kully

kully

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Hallo,

Winter's here and the water from my garden tap into my "film washing station" is getting rather cold.

I was wondering whether this is causing any problems other than extending the wash time (40-45 minutes). I say this because I've started developing rolls after a few months off and noticed more deposits than I remember.

cheers,
kully
 
Deposits of what?

Are you using something like Photoflo? HCA?

I used to wash film for only 25 minutes until I got using HCA, which shortened the time to 5 minutes.

Whatever the reason, I'd like to know if the water temperature in the was may have some effect in the final product. I don't think it should, but then, my experience is very limited. However, we're going into the winter here too, so...

Answer away! :)
 
40-45 minutes!?
I do the fill up/drain/fill up/sit/drain/fill up/sit/drain do that about 5 or 6 times. Save h2o. The technique is somewhere on Ilford's web site.
 
SolaresLarrave said:
Deposits of what?

Are you using something like Photoflo? HCA?

I used to wash film for only 25 minutes until I got using HCA, which shortened the time to 5 minutes.

Whatever the reason, I'd like to know if the water temperature in the was may have some effect in the final product. I don't think it should, but then, my experience is very limited. However, we're going into the winter here too, so...

Answer away! :)
Click to expand...

I read that today's film is so much less prone to reticulation from temperature differences. I've done cold h2o in NYC to wash with no reticulation. Here in California, I just use the cold tap to wash all year round. I think I read somewhere as much as 20 degrees tolerance. You can alway try a snip test to see and use a magnifying glass to check reticulation.
I've not seen any reticulation from developing and washing with cold h2o since I started back in the early 80's.
 
Geez, be careful regarding temperatures. Around here the garden hose at this time of the year puts out some very chilly H20! Any reticulation on the negs? If not, then the other comments here regarding reducing wash times are entirely appropriate IMHO.
 
I have never had a problem washing for about 1 minute, permawash bath with continuous agitation for a minute, final rinse one more minute, then a dip for 20-30 seconds in a tank of water with photoflo. I try to estimate the water temperature from the tap to be close to developing temperature.
 
Is Ilford's Hypam OK for film ? Didin't know that, here in Japan the (Japanese) writing on the bottle only says "paper" :confused:

So far I use Kodal's Rapid Fix and Hypo Clearing Agent. For washing, I fill a 5l (1 gallon) beaker with water having the same temperature as the developer (usually 20 degrees), then washing according to the Ilford method (3x inversion, fresh water, 6x inversion ...) finally 20s a wetting agent.
 
Save the planet!
I fully agree and accomplish according Ilford washing metod, always with great success.
Regarding the temperature, I just take same care about it with old film emulsion formulation, like Efke.
Save the planet!
;-)

sniki
 
You've got me thinking now, I wonder if I can filter the copious amounts of rainwater I collect in my water butt...?

Probably better than the alkaline water from the tap too.
 
Before I start to develop I prepare water in three (for 3 washing cycles 5+10+20 agitations) plastic canisters (in each is amount of water that I need to fill the tank) and leave it to reach room temp...

...and in the last canister I put just the drop of washing detergent.... to spice thing up with the lemon flavor :D
 
Usually the wash temp shouldn't differ more than about 7 degrees Celsius from temp of chemicals. Otherwise reticulation can occur: a sort of thermal shock making gelatin uneven. Think of it as film goosebumps :)
 
One of my constant problems is having to chill everything in the fridge down to 20deg before I start work on processing film. My chemicals invariably have to be left in the bar fridge I have in my darkroom for half an hour or so before I can get started!

Yeah ... some problem I know! :p
 
Keith, you have the opposite problem as Kully. Your tap water is probably too warm in January and February.

I use a 23L Igloo ice chest, which I fill with 5 to 7 cm of water to temper my solutions. Before placing my bottles into the bath - I bring the water temperature down to about 18 degrees C with a frozen blue ice pack that is made to use with the cooler.

I then leave my developing bottles in the bath for about a half hour. Check the temp and either move on to developing or adjust the temp as need be.
 
45 min washing? geez that's a lot of water
It is better to use the fill/agitate/wait/agitate/dump method for 3 or 4 changes of water
Since you are using cold water agitate and let it stand for a minute, then agitate again to allow diffusin to happen.
In that way it will take 10-15 minutes and saves a lot of water (4x600ml ~ 2.5 l)

kully said:
Hallo,

Winter's here and the water from my garden tap into my "film washing station" is getting rather cold.

I was wondering whether this is causing any problems other than extending the wash time (40-45 minutes). I say this because I've started developing rolls after a few months off and noticed more deposits than I remember.

cheers,
kully
Click to expand...
 
Kully's problem is similar to what I experience during July through September -when our tap water is too warm - and - again in January or February when the water is too cold.

For washing film - I keep a couple of gallons of water at room temperature and use the Ilford method. I also use HCA after the fix, as this greatly reduces the wash time.
 
Sparrow said:
Do you have 5-7cm of water left in Brisbane, Keith

:)
Click to expand...

I'm lucky ... I'm on tank water and there has actually been enough rain lately that our twenty thousand gallon concrete storage tank is 3/4 full ... and there's only my son and myself here to use it! :)
 
Keith said:
I'm lucky ... I'm on tank water and there has actually been enough rain lately that our twenty thousand gallon concrete storage tank is 3/4 full ... and there's only my son and myself here to use it! :)
Click to expand...

I have customers over there and the last I heard, Sydney was days away from running out, they never mention when anything good happening, ya’ know whining Aussies. :angel:

I tried to induce reticulation in hp5 once, to see what effect it gave, rinsed it with iced water but nothing happened
 
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Keith: While your'e in the lab bar waiting for chems to cool down, perhaps it's time for a good brew? ;-)

Nicola & Eric: Have I got this right? I can move the film 4-5 times into cannisters approximately the same size as my 2-reel steel tank... lets say 480ml. Then in the last one, I swish the reels up and down for 30 seconds in Photoflo or equivalent.

This method would certainly save water! In summer, I have been washing around
6-7 minutes... and in winter, 12-15, from the filtered tap in the kitchen.
 
mike goldberg said:
Nicola & Eric: Have I got this right? I can move the film 4-5 times into cannisters approximately the same size as my 2-reel steel tank... lets say 480ml. Then in the last one, I swish the reels up and down for 30 seconds in Photoflo or equivalent.

.
Click to expand...
I have a 2 Liter container which I fill up and drain. If I'm doing 2x 35mm, I can use a 1L container.
I *think* the science is dilution of the fixer in Parts Per Million (PPM) so the more standing h2o you have, the better. Logically, I can leave it in a bathtub full of water for a few minutes cause of a high PPM/fixer ratio.

I hope this helps!
I have old email (or from Apug) from Clayton chemicals (Lowel). He said all the manufacturers times are very very conservative. He said you can get away with just a couple of minutes running wash after a washing aid.
 
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