Water marks on newly developed film

[astroman]

Just recently got back into developing my own film.(Its been a lot of years).Anyway water marks I think its the photo flo rinse thats leaving streaks.My question is do I just rinse the negs in water again to remove the marks?And why is the photo flo leaving the steaks in the first place.Isnt it suppose to prevent that?
Thanks

 

[mknawabi]

photo flo should reduce the marks. did you do about 2 mL per every ~500 mL? dip it in 30 secs, then let your negs dry in a de-dusted (hot shower for 5 minutes) area for 3-4 hours.

you might want to take some water and rub off the water marks, see if they go away. if they do, wash one time in the tank, then re photo-flo

at least, that's what i would try

 

[bmattock]

Water that remains on the negatives when it dries will show spots if the water contained anything in it, as most water does.

Photo Flo is an emollient, designed to change the surface tension of water so that it does not 'bead up' but instead runs off your film before the water dries.

Photo Flo is best used very sparingly, and no, you do not rinse once more after using Photo Flo, that would remove the action of the Photo Flo.

Most film can be re-rinsed if needed, but each rinse raises the possibility of emulsion damage and more water spots. However, in your case, I suspect I'd risk it and rinse again.

My practice is to rinse my film for the requisite time (I don't use hypo clear, so I must rinse longer) and then I give the film a short bath in a solution of water and Photo Flo (couple drops in 500ml of water). Then I remove the film and use my first two fingers like a squeegee, pulling the film through. Then I hang the film in a closet to dry for a few hours.

If there is a heater duct in the closet, I close it. Excessive air flow can make the water evaporate before it can run off the film, which creates spots too.

 

[MartinP]

What is the photoflo mixed in ? Try using distilled water (the best failsafe answer but often unnecessary), or at least water that has gone through one of those domestic filter-jugs, or even Spa. The photoflo isn't the thing leaving the marks, if they look like dried mineral deposit etc. - so it must be the water. The film "should" be absolutely sparkling clean after drying...

[EDIT: Some people wipe water from the film (as Bill mentioned above), others don't and still get clean negs. My view is not leaving the muck on there in the first place is better than removing it by hand afterwards. Good point about the drying speed though - the quicker you heat-dry the film the more likely are the marks, as the water does take time to slide off, or to the film edges.]

This is assuming that you are using the right amount of photoflo and not ten times too much, or something like that, of course.

Also, be extremely careful (ie. I couldn't recommend it) if you try to polish off any dried mineral marks. There will be small scratches made as you do so, and eventually you will want a big enlargement from exactly that section of negative.

 

[FrankS]

I use distilled/deionized water with a bit of photoflo as the last wash minute. End of water mark problems for me. Reuse this water for 100 rolls, then get a new jug from the supermarket.

 

[back alley]

too much photo flo could be the problem.

 

[bmattock]

I use distilled/deionized water with a bit of photoflo as the last wash minute. End of water mark problems for me. Reuse this water for 100 rolls, then get a new jug from the supermarket.

That's the second time I've heard of someone reusing Photo Flo in the past couple weeks! I had never heard of anyone doing that before, really!

I don't even use Photo Flo, I use Edwal LFN Wetting Agent. A 3/4 ounce bottle has lasted me nearly three years, and it was $4.99. I had a bottle of Photo Flo 200 I had used since high school. I mean, if you use the stuff as recommended, it lasts forever. Just two drops is all you need!

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/541510-Edwal-LFN-Wetting-Agent-3-4-oz.?cat_id=307

I use a Pur brand water filter on my faucet instead of distilled water. No marks.

 

[astroman]

The photo flo was quite soapy.So Im guessing thats the problem.I should read the instructions a little more carefully next time:bang:
Ill carefully rinse the negs again to get the marks off.

Thank You for all the input

 

[mh2000]

I've stopped using Photoflo altogether and just use a final soak in distilled water... probably the most expensive option, but has been working perfectly for me.

 

[John Robertson]

I've stopped using Photoflo altogether and just use a final soak in distilled water... probably the most expensive option, but has been working perfectly for me.

Filter jug water, one tiny drop of photo flo, hang in recently used shower cabinet,close door, and kill anyone who goes near it!!
If I hang the film anywhere else the cat regards it as a challenge to reach it!!
P.S. I also use a filter jug, for water to dilute chemicals and replace cartridge regularly.

 

[russianRF]

I've stopped using Photoflo altogether and just use a final soak in distilled water... probably the most expensive option, but has been working perfectly for me.

Walmart has gallon jugs of steam distilled water for less than $0.80. It's more expensive than tap, but not so bad. 🙂

 

[dufffader]

Over time some of us tend to stick to a workflow that works well for us.

What I do is to use the tank of photoflo+water and rinse over the negatives while holding the negs from one end, essentially letting the solution flow down from one end of the negs to the other end, then immediately hanging it up to dry. That way, bubbles doesn't stick and the solution is spread over the negatives, no streaks due to uneven drying etc.

I don't squeegee it with my fingers anymore to prevent scratches (either from water or from dirty/rough fingers). scratches due to the film canister is another thing.

The photo flo was quite soapy.So Im guessing thats the problem.I should read the instructions a little more carefully next time:bang:
Ill carefully rinse the negs again to get the marks off.

Thank You for all the input

 

[fidget]

I'd had problems with water marks on and off for a few months when I first started.
I tried a drop (only one drop, as warned by the local darkroom supplies shop) of washing up detergent. This didn't really help much, but things improved a little when I allowed the negs to dry quite slowly in my drying room (doubles up as a bathroom).
I bought some real wash aid, this was Jessops Econowash. This too was used at the rate of a few drops per 1 litre tank. Again, this was a disappointment, with some marks here and there, usually on the best frames!

Then I read an article in a mag about washing negatives. They tried a few different makes and reported their findings. The testers followed the manufacturers instructions carefully and found that they all did a fair job. The major variation, IIRC was the price.

I thought, "what a good idea", I'll read the instructions (for the first time!!!!!).

Although I had been putting a few drops into a one litre tank, the instructions suggested it should be used at 1:500. So I used a syringe to put in 2cc per litre tank, which is much more than a few drops. That was it, drying marks are now rare on my negs. I generally see them only when I have speeded up the drying process when running camera test films.
Not for the first time, I had been caught out by simply not bothering to read the instructions. Must write on the back of my hand....RTFM.

 

[drewbarb]

I reuse photo-flo, too. Just a few drops in half a gallon of distilled water. I dump it as soon as I see any crud in it- I generally wash 20-30 rolls of film, or the equivalent there-of, before I mix up fresh photo-flo. Distilled water is cheap. I use the stuff that comes from my dehumidifier when it's full (I keep the machine and the receptacle clean); otherwise I pay around a buck for gallon.

 

[Ronald M]

Follow Kodak`s instructions, 1:200. 2 ml in enough water to cover the film in a stainless tank. Agitate some. Keep submerged for 1 minute.

Hang to dry.

Use for no more than 24 hours.

I sometimes use a transfer pippette to wash down already hanging film that has received the original process. Use original solution.

Never squeegee or wipe down in any way.

 

[Joao]

Spin it!

Spin it!

It may seem crazy but it works : spin the film befor hanging. Very fast drying without marks, the more and faster you spin it, the quicker it dries. Detailed explanation here:
http://public.fotki.com/BlueWind/drying-film/
I've been using this very dynamic method without problems. Warning: method is not recommended if you have shoulder or upper limb arthritis.
Regards
Joao

 

[sepiareverb]

I use photo-flo (the Sprint version, End Run), mixed as directed in my regular filtered darkroom water. I mix up a gallon of it at a time and use it as needed- usually running 8 to 12 rolls of film through 300ml. I've been using Photo Wipes (now available from Tidi Products- as a 3-ply tissue) on 35mm and 120 film for nearly thirty years- a half a Photo Wipe on each film, folded to wipe down both sides at once, gently removing the Photo Flo solution. The films dry much faster, with less chance for dust to settle on the wet film, and I haven't had a single water mark that I can remember- ever.

There is a mix for the Sprint End-Run designed for sheet films which can't really be wiped down- this has worked very well for me on films up to 11x14.

 

[jbh]

Mix your Photoflo or LFN about half-strength in distilled water.
After soaking with agitation, take the film off the reel, grab an end in each hand and "snap" it straight, flinging droplets in all directions. Then hang to dry. Do _not_ squeegee, run your fingers down it etc.
A few years ago many were putting reels of film in a salad spinner; I gather it worked but I never tried it.

 

[aniMal]

Hehe - I really like the idea of using centrifugal force... Just add a powerful motor from a washing machine or something and it should leave it as dry as in Sahara!

I fought with this problem for some years before finding the solution in a film squeege. Dont know if you can still get them, but they leave the film evenly wet and ready for drying.

The important thing is not damaging the film as you actually scrape it like with a windshield wiper, but there is a solution to that. As soon as i started first washing my hands, then wiping the rubber of the squeege, and then washing it all again, I never had a single mark on my films. Remember to make sure there is no water on the top of the film making its way down as it dries...

I also added photoflo as an extra sometimes, but it is not necessary.