rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
....and I used to be frightened by flash bulbs too. Those things get hot! And if you grab one before its cooled down, the molten safety coating will stick to your skin, ensuring a long painful burning event.
x-ray
Veteran
Nokton48 I used some smaller Broncolor units in the 70's into the 80's at an ad agency I worked for. They were nice units but components like sockets, plugs and fuses weren't standard in the US. Broncolor parts were were hard to find in the south. That's one of the great things about Speedotron. Virtually every component can be bought in a good electronics store.
Honeywell changed portable strobes for ever. They went from huge heavy units with wet cell batteries or high voltage batteries to a small light and very efficient flash with nicad rechargeable batteries. After carrying a Graflex IV flash with two 4xx volt batteries that weights 5 pounds around, Honeywell brought relief to our backs.
Do any of yo remember those huge heavy Graflex IV strobes? The IV could be switched from 50-200ws if I remember correctly. There was also the Braun RL515. It took one single 5-5v battery. I had one of those too and they were much smaller and lighter thN the Graflex and batteries although expensive were much cheaper than the two for the Graflex.
Then Vivitar came in and saved our backs and wallets. They brought out the 283 that set the stage for virtually all modern portable strobes. They were small, light, fast recycle, good guide #, auto or manual exposure with multiple ranges and some very usable accessories at a very good price. I think the 283 is still made after more than forty years.
Speaking of smelling the burned plastic coating on flash bulbs as a child one of my favorite smells was the B&W coated swab that came with polaroid B&W film in the 50's and 60's. Actually they came with the 4x5 55PN that I used a lot of. I actually have a few still to sniff when I start missing the old days.
One thing about large strobes, they'll kill if mistreated it only takes 50 WS (joules) to start and stop your heart and these big units store 4,800 up to 6,000 ws. If you didn't die you'd be severely burned and probably never the same. If you really want to know what something like that feels like, I can give you an idea. About 25 years ago my son and a friend and I were at a pistol range practicing for a state tournament when a lightning storm came up. We all pulled up our target frames and headed out. I was the last out and had to close a steel gate. As I wrapped my arms around a 4" heavy horizontal part of the gate to put a pin in a hole I remember feeling the hair on my arms stand up then everything went white. My son witnessed me getting a secondary strike off of a tree. That's about all I remember. For about two weeks my body from my toes to my eyelids felt like I'd been hit by a cement mixer. Every muscle contracted 100%, even in my eyelids.
Honeywell changed portable strobes for ever. They went from huge heavy units with wet cell batteries or high voltage batteries to a small light and very efficient flash with nicad rechargeable batteries. After carrying a Graflex IV flash with two 4xx volt batteries that weights 5 pounds around, Honeywell brought relief to our backs.
Do any of yo remember those huge heavy Graflex IV strobes? The IV could be switched from 50-200ws if I remember correctly. There was also the Braun RL515. It took one single 5-5v battery. I had one of those too and they were much smaller and lighter thN the Graflex and batteries although expensive were much cheaper than the two for the Graflex.
Then Vivitar came in and saved our backs and wallets. They brought out the 283 that set the stage for virtually all modern portable strobes. They were small, light, fast recycle, good guide #, auto or manual exposure with multiple ranges and some very usable accessories at a very good price. I think the 283 is still made after more than forty years.
Speaking of smelling the burned plastic coating on flash bulbs as a child one of my favorite smells was the B&W coated swab that came with polaroid B&W film in the 50's and 60's. Actually they came with the 4x5 55PN that I used a lot of. I actually have a few still to sniff when I start missing the old days.
One thing about large strobes, they'll kill if mistreated it only takes 50 WS (joules) to start and stop your heart and these big units store 4,800 up to 6,000 ws. If you didn't die you'd be severely burned and probably never the same. If you really want to know what something like that feels like, I can give you an idea. About 25 years ago my son and a friend and I were at a pistol range practicing for a state tournament when a lightning storm came up. We all pulled up our target frames and headed out. I was the last out and had to close a steel gate. As I wrapped my arms around a 4" heavy horizontal part of the gate to put a pin in a hole I remember feeling the hair on my arms stand up then everything went white. My son witnessed me getting a secondary strike off of a tree. That's about all I remember. For about two weeks my body from my toes to my eyelids felt like I'd been hit by a cement mixer. Every muscle contracted 100%, even in my eyelids.
BillBingham2
Registered User
My father would come home and charge three Graflex batteries for the next day. Remember the WIDE black plastic straps. My gut tells me that you could lift a Le Car with two of those.
X-Ray that is scary 5hit man. Damn lucky to be here. I was told that lightening doesn't have to follow the laws of physics and it can go any way it feels like.
I went from a 151 to a 192 that I used for years. If the accessories for the 292 were anywhere near as good as the 283 I would have stayed with that form-factor. I love off camera flash and the 192/292 had all the power of the 283. I used a thick plastic card to help direct light and held it in my left hand. I remember taking it apart about a week after I got it to put in a thin piece of frosted plastic to help defuse the harshness. That and my old Konica IIIa were a great flash setup for existing darkness. Right hand for focus, aperture, and shutter release, left for flash and film advance.
Make me very happy at the range out here we have an automatic gate now. You are very a lucky man!
B2 (;->
X-Ray that is scary 5hit man. Damn lucky to be here. I was told that lightening doesn't have to follow the laws of physics and it can go any way it feels like.
I went from a 151 to a 192 that I used for years. If the accessories for the 292 were anywhere near as good as the 283 I would have stayed with that form-factor. I love off camera flash and the 192/292 had all the power of the 283. I used a thick plastic card to help direct light and held it in my left hand. I remember taking it apart about a week after I got it to put in a thin piece of frosted plastic to help defuse the harshness. That and my old Konica IIIa were a great flash setup for existing darkness. Right hand for focus, aperture, and shutter release, left for flash and film advance.
Make me very happy at the range out here we have an automatic gate now. You are very a lucky man!
B2 (;->
charjohncarter
Veteran
Bill, Le Car???? My friend had one and we could lift it. I didn't think of flash batteries.
x-ray
Veteran
I was extremely lucky. It knocked out some memory but it doesn't matter because I can't remember what it was ;-). My sister in laws brother suffered a direct hit while on a ship in the navy. It really messed up his heart but he's in his 70's now and is doing fine. I had client in the late 60's that's 5 year old daughter was hit on a golf course. She was in a coma for thirty years and passed away without ever regaining conciousness. Very sad!
I've got a couple of little pocket Vivitars from the 70's that still work and are great for a little fill light outside.
I just bought a Nikon SB5000. What an amazing strobe but you have to carry the manual with you because it's way too complex. I wish Nikon would allow you to custom design your own menu on your computer and load the features in the unit that you'll need in a configuration that makes sense to you. It would be so simple. I guess that's the problem, it's too simple.
I've got a couple of little pocket Vivitars from the 70's that still work and are great for a little fill light outside.
I just bought a Nikon SB5000. What an amazing strobe but you have to carry the manual with you because it's way too complex. I wish Nikon would allow you to custom design your own menu on your computer and load the features in the unit that you'll need in a configuration that makes sense to you. It would be so simple. I guess that's the problem, it's too simple.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Yeah, I lusted after the old Renault 5 and the 17 Gordini for years, come to think of it I still do. My father got some front seats from a old (then) Renault 8 and built some frames on 2x6s and we used them in the basement for seating for years. Gosh they were comfortable.
On my first day of photography class in High School our teacher was trying to teach us about light and exposure. He took a picture of us with the lights on, then turned them off and took another. Then he pulled out a six in long strand of magnesium that he lit while I took his picture. Talk about things you would never see in a school today. But then we had a lino-type machine with hot led and three old presses.
B2 (;->
peterm1
Veteran
I recall that era (vaguely) though I hasten to add I was only a little kid (I am thinking of the 1960s). One incident sticks in my mind for some reason. My older brother was getting married and a photographer was duly organized for that day. I do not know what camera he was using but I do recall it was impressively BIG. I don't recall him using a tripod so I can only guess all these years on that it was something like a speed graphic or similar (pictured below). One further thing I do recall vividly was the plethora of used flashbulbs dropped on the floor by him as he took pictures in the reception hall. I recall picking a freshly dropped one up and burning myself on it. Which of course is probably the principal reason why I recall it all so vividly 50 years on. Oh there was another reason - I remember that I did not wish to go to the wedding preferring to stay at home and read comics and play with my air rifle. My stressed father, tired of arguing with me wolloped me. Which settled the argument convincing me, not perhaps that I had changed my mind, but rather that there was no further point in resisting. I don't blame him, I would have done the same were I in his shoes but it did register on my mind apparently. I ended up with pain on both ends of my body that day and can only conclude that pain administered appropriately is a good way of remembering things and reinforcing learning. A lesson in evolutionary biology, perhaps.
x-ray
Veteran
Talk about life easier, Linotype machines were engineering marvels. I used to watch the typesetters run them at the newspaper near my home when I was a kid in the 50's. I did work for a guy that had a print shop an still set type on two of them. He was still using them in the 90's until he died. How amazing they are and watching the operator press the type impression in the fiber mat then form it into a cylinder and pour hot Linotype metal in it. I used to love getting ahold of those mats after they were finished with them. There's still a Linotype society that use them. I had one of the member contact me to use one of my images in something he was doing. He said the group gets together each year and each will produce a special piece for show each year and make enough printed pieces for each member to exchange with each other. Very cool they're keeping this alive.
I'm really big on keeping old photo processes alive. I do platinum printing and shoot collodion wet plates. I try to keep everything as authentic as possible down to the lens. In the 70's I had a coworker teach me how to do dye transfer prints. Man, what a process! I'd like to get into other processes one day.
I'm really big on keeping old photo processes alive. I do platinum printing and shoot collodion wet plates. I try to keep everything as authentic as possible down to the lens. In the 70's I had a coworker teach me how to do dye transfer prints. Man, what a process! I'd like to get into other processes one day.
x-ray
Veteran
Peter I worked for the Department of Energy (the new name for the AEC Atomic Energy Commission) back in the mid 70's. My boss was marking time until retirement and resisted any form of modernization. We still shot everything including grip and grins on 4x5 sheet film. We each had a 4x5 calumet monorail and a Super Speed Graphic with a Graflite flashgun and a bag for bulbs and one for film holders. I shot literally a ton of press 5 and 25 bulbs.
My Super Speed had problems with the fine wires that ran through the bellows that triggered the selanoid tat fired the lens and that fired the flash. It spent a lot of time in the repair shop and would work for a few days after getting it back then fail again. I finally gave up and dug a WWII olive green signal corp Speed Graphic out of the camera locker and adopted it until I left the DOE. It worked flawlessly. Wish I owned it now.
My Super Speed had problems with the fine wires that ran through the bellows that triggered the selanoid tat fired the lens and that fired the flash. It spent a lot of time in the repair shop and would work for a few days after getting it back then fail again. I finally gave up and dug a WWII olive green signal corp Speed Graphic out of the camera locker and adopted it until I left the DOE. It worked flawlessly. Wish I owned it now.
PKR
Veteran
X-ray;
You'll like this.
http://www.dasilvaphoto.com/behind-the-exposure-blog/2015/3/18/on-the-make-repair-again?rq=ascor
I once repaired a sunlight series console. 4 capacitor drawers at 5000 W/s each. There were two consoles in the studio owned by my pal, who shot food on 8x10
pkr
You'll like this.
http://www.dasilvaphoto.com/behind-the-exposure-blog/2015/3/18/on-the-make-repair-again?rq=ascor
I once repaired a sunlight series console. 4 capacitor drawers at 5000 W/s each. There were two consoles in the studio owned by my pal, who shot food on 8x10
pkr
x-ray
Veteran
That's the article that inspired this thread.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Second semester in Monroe Community College a bunch of us "Data Processing" types had done our PL/1 assignment and one of the other geeks-in-training new to him car and wanted to show us. We went to see his car and I noticed a Vega that belonged to one of the girls in our class. She had parked next to me and the space on the other side of hers. So as it was a nice day, the six of us bounced her Vega and turned it sideways between my car and other. We guessed that she would be out so we hung out near the car (read BOAT with room to almost get into the engine compartment on either side of the big V8) with the hood up. She came out in a bit and was confused, mad, but all was forgiven when we I moved my car.
B2 (;->
x-ray
Veteran
It must have been around 1960, my band instructor had a Renault Daulphine. Several of us turned it sideways one day. Today you'd get in serious trouble doin something like that but back then everyone just laughed and went on with life. No one hurt and nothing damaged, just fun.
Nokton48
Veteran
One reason I went with Broncolor, is that it is some of the safest strobe eq out there. I have no desire to experience a jolt of electricity. When you turn off the pack, it discharges through large built-in ceramic resistors. Broncolor made a big deal out of the fact that they passed UL tests and were approved to be safe. I've heard of assistants being blown across the room by some other systems..........
That strobe in Peter's photo is interesting. That's a Norman 200b flash tube grafted onto the top of a 283. I have a few of those, Armatar was making them for a while. IMO the biggest advantage is fitting the strobe with Norman reflectors. I have a homemade soft one that I used to use with the 30mm Hasselblad 30mm fisheye. So very versatile.........
I have gravitated to using smaller Broncolor strobe packs, the really big ones can be rather scary to fire up. As they age the big issue is whether the caps will "poof" and Larry at Broncolor Service says that is somewhat inevitable at some point or another (due to cap aging). The only remedy is cap replacement, which is outrageously expensive as far as I am concerned.
That strobe in Peter's photo is interesting. That's a Norman 200b flash tube grafted onto the top of a 283. I have a few of those, Armatar was making them for a while. IMO the biggest advantage is fitting the strobe with Norman reflectors. I have a homemade soft one that I used to use with the 30mm Hasselblad 30mm fisheye. So very versatile.........
I have gravitated to using smaller Broncolor strobe packs, the really big ones can be rather scary to fire up. As they age the big issue is whether the caps will "poof" and Larry at Broncolor Service says that is somewhat inevitable at some point or another (due to cap aging). The only remedy is cap replacement, which is outrageously expensive as far as I am concerned.
ABrosig
Well-known
I got a good jolt once from a White Lighting mounted on a catwalk way too far above the gym floor in a coliseum. Followed all the instructions for changing the flash tube - unplug it, let it sit over night, went back the next day to change out the tube, pressed the test button several times, pulled the old tube no problem, went to insert the new tube and zzzaaap!. Lucky there were two horizontal pipes, one above the other, as well as a horizontal corner piece right at my back or I'd have probably been a grease spot on the free-throw line!
x-ray
Veteran
Capacitors can hold a partial charge for quite a few days.
I never had a capacitor blow but the Norman 2000's I had blew several diodes. When one would blow there'd be a huge ball of fire come out of the pack and it sounded like firing a shotgun beside you. It would scare the crap out of you. I've never had any diodes or capacitors blow with my Speedotrons.
I never had a capacitor blow but the Norman 2000's I had blew several diodes. When one would blow there'd be a huge ball of fire come out of the pack and it sounded like firing a shotgun beside you. It would scare the crap out of you. I've never had any diodes or capacitors blow with my Speedotrons.
Nokton48
Veteran
Here is one of my Broncolor 606 Heads. This beast will handle 6000 watt seconds through one tube. See how massive the flashtube (and connecting cord) is? To put it in perspective, firing this head once is the equivalent of simultaneously firing sixty (60) Vivitar 283 flashes. 
The 606 pack has a flip-up door arrangement, which automatically fully discharges all the caps, before you can remove any of the connection cords. This is an example of Bronolor safety built in to the system. No need for a "suicide stick" :/
My Broncolor Hazylight Head will also handle 6000Ws. It is fan cooled and has a 1000W modeling light, which I tend to use more with the Hazylight, rather than the strobe itself.
Broncolor 606 Head by Nokton48, on Flickr
The 606 pack has a flip-up door arrangement, which automatically fully discharges all the caps, before you can remove any of the connection cords. This is an example of Bronolor safety built in to the system. No need for a "suicide stick" :/
My Broncolor Hazylight Head will also handle 6000Ws. It is fan cooled and has a 1000W modeling light, which I tend to use more with the Hazylight, rather than the strobe itself.
Broncolor 606 Head by Nokton48, on Flickr
x-ray
Veteran
Those are expensive tubes. I have Speedotron Blackline packs and still have 4800cx and 106 heads that have a single tube that takes the full 4800ws. The tubes get expensive if you break one.
One of the big complaints Ive had with strobes vs hot lights is the lack of fresnel spot lights. You almost have to have hot lights adapted. Speedotron addressed that and still make fresnel lights. I have one that I love that's an 8" fresnel based on a Strand-Century. It takes a full 4800 as in one tube. It's a really nice light that has a very unifor pattern from very tight to flood. I just picked up a nice Ascor fresnel focusing spot that had a short in the modeling lamp or fan circuit. It's off to Speedotron to be fixed. This little spot will take 800ws max.
I learned to light in the days of hot lights and still use hot lights and especially fresnels. You just have so much control and unlike LED lights the color is on the money. Speaking of LED's. I worked on a shoot recently where one of the assistants had just bout a new Arri sun soft light, WOW. Amazing color and versatility with constantly variable color from the warm side of tungsten to something like 20,000 kelvin. It'll run on a battery too and you can dial in about any color that Rosco offers in gells. The catch is it's dry heavy and with the AC power supply its right at $7,000 but it'll last a lifetime. Arri has similar features in their LED fresnels too. You could have a pretty nice lighting package for around $75,000:-(.
That's a lot cheaper than a comperable HMI package and a lot lighter and easier to use. No monsterous heavy ballasts and temperamental lights that won't strike an arc when hot. No heat too with LED's.
Speaking of big and heavy, in my hot light days I had a Mole Richardson Mighty Mole that was 10,000 watts. Imagine the amperage it pulled. I had 2 800 amp services in the studio. The beast must have weights 300 pounds and the fresnel lens was around 30" in diameter. I might be a touch off on size as it's been over 30 years since I had it. I also had 4 x 5,000 watt, 6 x 2,000 watt and quite a few 1,000's. Then there were 1,000 watt floods and smaller fresnels. I did quite a bit of motion picture work for commercials on 35mm film and then later video plus doing large room sets and products for stills. Big setups take a lot of light because tungsten film is quite slow (transparency film not negs).
With Ektachrome professional tungsten the film came with a data sheet that gave different ISO values for different exposure times and filter pack recommendations for each time to correct for reciprocity color shift. I always tested each batch and most often found their recommendations were off by quite a bit.
A 15 second exposure on tungsten chrome might result in an effective ISO of 15 with a filter pack of cc10 blue + c 7.5 magenta. Depending on the batch of film it could be anything. For example one batch might require that cc10B + cc7.5M at 15 sec and at 1 minute it might be ISO 8 with a cc5 green + cc10 cyan and another batch would be totally different.
When you're working with an ISO of 10 or 15 with filters and an aperture of f45 on your 19' (480mm) lens on 8x10 you need a huge amount of light. Imagine working with models and keeping them cool and looking fresh.
Daylight film and strobes made life much much easier. Daylight film didn't require CC filter packs to correct reciprocity color shift because the flash duration was very fast. There was no proble keeping talent cool and power requirements were much less. The trade off was the lack of fresnel lighting. Like I mentioned, Speedotron offers or offered 2 fresnel spots, an 8 and a 10 inch that will take 4800 ws in a single pop.
One of the big complaints Ive had with strobes vs hot lights is the lack of fresnel spot lights. You almost have to have hot lights adapted. Speedotron addressed that and still make fresnel lights. I have one that I love that's an 8" fresnel based on a Strand-Century. It takes a full 4800 as in one tube. It's a really nice light that has a very unifor pattern from very tight to flood. I just picked up a nice Ascor fresnel focusing spot that had a short in the modeling lamp or fan circuit. It's off to Speedotron to be fixed. This little spot will take 800ws max.
I learned to light in the days of hot lights and still use hot lights and especially fresnels. You just have so much control and unlike LED lights the color is on the money. Speaking of LED's. I worked on a shoot recently where one of the assistants had just bout a new Arri sun soft light, WOW. Amazing color and versatility with constantly variable color from the warm side of tungsten to something like 20,000 kelvin. It'll run on a battery too and you can dial in about any color that Rosco offers in gells. The catch is it's dry heavy and with the AC power supply its right at $7,000 but it'll last a lifetime. Arri has similar features in their LED fresnels too. You could have a pretty nice lighting package for around $75,000:-(.
That's a lot cheaper than a comperable HMI package and a lot lighter and easier to use. No monsterous heavy ballasts and temperamental lights that won't strike an arc when hot. No heat too with LED's.
Speaking of big and heavy, in my hot light days I had a Mole Richardson Mighty Mole that was 10,000 watts. Imagine the amperage it pulled. I had 2 800 amp services in the studio. The beast must have weights 300 pounds and the fresnel lens was around 30" in diameter. I might be a touch off on size as it's been over 30 years since I had it. I also had 4 x 5,000 watt, 6 x 2,000 watt and quite a few 1,000's. Then there were 1,000 watt floods and smaller fresnels. I did quite a bit of motion picture work for commercials on 35mm film and then later video plus doing large room sets and products for stills. Big setups take a lot of light because tungsten film is quite slow (transparency film not negs).
With Ektachrome professional tungsten the film came with a data sheet that gave different ISO values for different exposure times and filter pack recommendations for each time to correct for reciprocity color shift. I always tested each batch and most often found their recommendations were off by quite a bit.
A 15 second exposure on tungsten chrome might result in an effective ISO of 15 with a filter pack of cc10 blue + c 7.5 magenta. Depending on the batch of film it could be anything. For example one batch might require that cc10B + cc7.5M at 15 sec and at 1 minute it might be ISO 8 with a cc5 green + cc10 cyan and another batch would be totally different.
When you're working with an ISO of 10 or 15 with filters and an aperture of f45 on your 19' (480mm) lens on 8x10 you need a huge amount of light. Imagine working with models and keeping them cool and looking fresh.
Daylight film and strobes made life much much easier. Daylight film didn't require CC filter packs to correct reciprocity color shift because the flash duration was very fast. There was no proble keeping talent cool and power requirements were much less. The trade off was the lack of fresnel lighting. Like I mentioned, Speedotron offers or offered 2 fresnel spots, an 8 and a 10 inch that will take 4800 ws in a single pop.
rybolt
Well-known
Norman P2000D's were sometimes referred to as the Norman Portable Grill. I had a wedding photographer buddy who blew one up one day during a bridal shoot and caused a pre-bride to soil her linen.
On the other hand, Bill Norman made some really good portable 2oo watt second packs and heads back in the 70's.
x-ray
Veteran
I may have some old tungsten chrome data sheets stuck away. If I find them I'll scan some and post.